The Secret Weapon

Everything related to our favorite Scottish duo.

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Yeah guys, BOC would be really happy if WARP just put their big studio secret in official marketing blurbs

Would be extremely smart from a business perspective too

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Guys...
I just realised that's not a piano on Roygbiv. It's a god damn electric guitar.
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Sorry, didn't mean to imply that it was THE SECRET WEAPON, but rather one of their main instruments (sure sounds like it could be).. and, you know, it probably doesn't matter AT ALL. This was one of the first threads that hit my search result that actually looked like it was about their equipment.

Just thought it was interesting since it's the first time, that I know of, that a specific instrument has been "linked" to BoC through an "official" means.

But, as I said in my initial post that resurrected this thread, it probably doesn't mean anything.

Continue speculatin'.

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wish i could afford one of these :(
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I don't mean to beat a dead horse here, but i believe i know what the "secret weapon" is and surprisingly, no one has mentioned it at all. I know most of you believe it is a synth, but I personally think the secret weapon is something more than that. I believe the "magic eye that opens up" clue is the most important, yet it has been the most overlooked. Getting to the point, Webcor was an electronic equipment manufacturer in the 40's-50's that made a line of tube-amplified reel-to-reel recorders that happen to have a "Magic Eye" valve that "opens" and lights up green when the tubes are properly warmed up. the tape distortion combined with vintage tube amplification would give any sound that bocesque nostalgic tinge. Furthermore, one of these reel-to-reels can still be purchased off of ebay for less than $100, putting it in the established price range. Another cool feature it had was a built-in microphone which im sure was far from high-fidelity. I dont think boc would emphasize a "secret weapon" if it was just a synth. Their magic doesn't come from their synths but from their processes. This leads me to believe it was a R2R/tubeamp combo. Many have already mentioned the grundig r2r's but I have yet to see a convincing "magic eye" on any of their models. Well, there you have it. Thoughts? Comments?
Last edited by Helicoid on Mon May 05, 2014 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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I believe the 'secret weapon' (among a few) could very well be the numerous filters they run their sounds through. Filter a sound over & over, through different permutations, and the sound *sounds like* something alien.

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Personally, i believe a large part of boc's recognizable sound is directly from, or can be achieved through magnetic tape generation decay and other tricks such as modulating the distance from the tape to the head or loosening the tension on the reels to achieve "bounce". That is why their music sounds so organic, because these are actual physical processes happening to the tape. I find it really hard to believe that the synth has anything to do with it. YES i know analog is warmer. I have achieved sounds just as warm and organic with softsynths, as i have from my jupiter 6 (provided i can record to a reel-to-reel through an amp). My point is, that with the right reel-to-reel/amp, you would not be able to tell a digital from an analog synth. I can try to upload samples of analog and digital samples being distorted through tape, and i guarantee you wont be able to tell them apart.

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Helicoid wrote:I don't mean to beat a dead horse here, but i believe i know what the "secret weapon" is and surprisingly, no one has mentioned it at all. I know most of you believe it is a synth, but I personally think the secret weapon is something more than that. I believe the "magic eye that opens up" clue is the most important, yet it has been the most overlooked. Getting to the point, Webcor was an electronic equipment manufacturer in the 40's-50's that made a line of tube-amplified reel-to-reel recorders that happen to have a "Magic Eye" valve that "opens" and lights up green when the tubes are properly warmed up. the tape distortion combined with vintage tube amplification would give any sound that bocesque nostalgic tinge. Furthermore, one of these reel-to-reels can still be purchased off of ebay for less than $100, putting it in the established price range. Another cool feature it had was a built-in microphone which im sure was far from high-fidelity. I dont think boc would emphasize a "secret weapon" if it was just a synth. Their magic doesn't come from their synths but from their processes. This leads me to believe it was a R2R/tubeamp combo. Many have already mentioned the grundig r2r's but I have yet to see a convincing "magic eye" on any of their models. Well, there you have it. Thoughts? Comments?


I like the way you think Helicoid, good call with the magic eye correlation. Though I'm thinking that the brothers would already have something like this by now, considering their resources. After all, you can readily find one on ebay like you said for a (mere) $100-200...
I'm thinking something way beyond this, something that is more of a one-of-a-kind?

Oh man, if only we could catch a glimpse of their forest bunker of toys.

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ZosoCon wrote:
Helicoid wrote:I don't mean to beat a dead horse here, but i believe i know what the "secret weapon" is and surprisingly, no one has mentioned it at all. I know most of you believe it is a synth, but I personally think the secret weapon is something more than that. I believe the "magic eye that opens up" clue is the most important, yet it has been the most overlooked. Getting to the point, Webcor was an electronic equipment manufacturer in the 40's-50's that made a line of tube-amplified reel-to-reel recorders that happen to have a "Magic Eye" valve that "opens" and lights up green when the tubes are properly warmed up. the tape distortion combined with vintage tube amplification would give any sound that bocesque nostalgic tinge. Furthermore, one of these reel-to-reels can still be purchased off of ebay for less than $100, putting it in the established price range. Another cool feature it had was a built-in microphone which im sure was far from high-fidelity. I dont think boc would emphasize a "secret weapon" if it was just a synth. Their magic doesn't come from their synths but from their processes. This leads me to believe it was a R2R/tubeamp combo. Many have already mentioned the grundig r2r's but I have yet to see a convincing "magic eye" on any of their models. Well, there you have it. Thoughts? Comments?


I like the way you think Helicoid, good call with the magic eye correlation. Though I'm thinking that the brothers would already have something like this by now, considering their resources. After all, you can readily find one on ebay like you said for a (mere) $100-200...
I'm thinking something way beyond this, something that is more of a one-of-a-kind?

Oh man, if only we could catch a glimpse of their forest bunker of toys.


If i recall correctly, the brothers said they bought it from a friend on a bus or something? The webcor was built into a small case with a carrying handle, perfect for carrying around (on a bus). I doubt you'd have the same luck trying to lug around a cs80. The sh-101 is portable but theres no definitive "magic eye". Anyways, im convinced. I just figured i would share. As far as other crazier effects, there's really no limit to what you can do if you daisy-chain a few r2r's together. And I'm entirely sure they own more than 1 r2r.

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Helicoid wrote:
ZosoCon wrote:
Helicoid wrote:I don't mean to beat a dead horse here, but i believe i know what the "secret weapon" is and surprisingly, no one has mentioned it at all. I know most of you believe it is a synth, but I personally think the secret weapon is something more than that. I believe the "magic eye that opens up" clue is the most important, yet it has been the most overlooked. Getting to the point, Webcor was an electronic equipment manufacturer in the 40's-50's that made a line of tube-amplified reel-to-reel recorders that happen to have a "Magic Eye" valve that "opens" and lights up green when the tubes are properly warmed up. the tape distortion combined with vintage tube amplification would give any sound that bocesque nostalgic tinge. Furthermore, one of these reel-to-reels can still be purchased off of ebay for less than $100, putting it in the established price range. Another cool feature it had was a built-in microphone which im sure was far from high-fidelity. I dont think boc would emphasize a "secret weapon" if it was just a synth. Their magic doesn't come from their synths but from their processes. This leads me to believe it was a R2R/tubeamp combo. Many have already mentioned the grundig r2r's but I have yet to see a convincing "magic eye" on any of their models. Well, there you have it. Thoughts? Comments?


I like the way you think Helicoid, good call with the magic eye correlation. Though I'm thinking that the brothers would already have something like this by now, considering their resources. After all, you can readily find one on ebay like you said for a (mere) $100-200...
I'm thinking something way beyond this, something that is more of a one-of-a-kind?

Oh man, if only we could catch a glimpse of their forest bunker of toys.


If i recall correctly, the brothers said they bought it from a friend on a bus or something? The webcor was built into a small case with a carrying handle, perfect for carrying around (on a bus). I doubt you'd have the same luck trying to lug around a cs80. The sh-101 is portable but theres no definitive "magic eye". Anyways, im convinced. I just figured i would share. As far as other crazier effects, there's really no limit to what you can do if you daisy-chain a few r2r's together. And I'm entirely sure they own more than 1 r2r.


True, I think we have to think beyond the sought after cs-80s, sh-101s, vcs-3s, etc. guessing the bro's have these amazing pieces of equipment...then again, i don't know...maybe a crazy portable version of one of these things is what they were after, i.e., of the vcs-3 branch like a EMS Synthi A or something.

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Helicoid wrote:I don't mean to beat a dead horse here, but i believe i know what the "secret weapon" is and surprisingly, no one has mentioned it at all. I know most of you believe it is a synth, but I personally think the secret weapon is something more than that. I believe the "magic eye that opens up" clue is the most important, yet it has been the most overlooked. Getting to the point, Webcor was an electronic equipment manufacturer in the 40's-50's that made a line of tube-amplified reel-to-reel recorders that happen to have a "Magic Eye" valve that "opens" and lights up green when the tubes are properly warmed up. the tape distortion combined with vintage tube amplification would give any sound that bocesque nostalgic tinge. Furthermore, one of these reel-to-reels can still be purchased off of ebay for less than $100, putting it in the established price range. Another cool feature it had was a built-in microphone which im sure was far from high-fidelity. I dont think boc would emphasize a "secret weapon" if it was just a synth. Their magic doesn't come from their synths but from their processes. This leads me to believe it was a R2R/tubeamp combo. Many have already mentioned the grundig r2r's but I have yet to see a convincing "magic eye" on any of their models. Well, there you have it. Thoughts? Comments?


My brother has the exact Regent recorder! Does this mean we possess the dreaded "secret weapon"?! I must use it to create beautiful BoC music at once!

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ZosoCon wrote:True, I think we have to think beyond the sought after cs-80s, sh-101s, vcs-3s, etc. guessing the bro's have these amazing pieces of equipment...then again, i don't know...maybe a crazy portable version of one of these things is what they were after, i.e., of the vcs-3 branch like a EMS Synthi A or something.


This (crappy music, just for equip example) is what I imagine the bulk of their setup is like. Likely 5 or more reel to reels providing delay, reverb, chorus, along with flutter, wobble, and tape distortion/saturation. They always speak of using what they have in ways that it wasn't intended, and with enough tape loops, you essentially have every effect you could ever need (short of bitcrush and vocoders). I would be surprised if they have more than 3 real analog synths; they have claimed not to own too many. But yeah, I've always been interested in their process and so called "secret weapon". This is just my 2 cents worth.

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Kure wrote:
Helicoid wrote:I don't mean to beat a dead horse here, but i believe i know what the "secret weapon" is and surprisingly, no one has mentioned it at all. I know most of you believe it is a synth, but I personally think the secret weapon is something more than that. I believe the "magic eye that opens up" clue is the most important, yet it has been the most overlooked. Getting to the point, Webcor was an electronic equipment manufacturer in the 40's-50's that made a line of tube-amplified reel-to-reel recorders that happen to have a "Magic Eye" valve that "opens" and lights up green when the tubes are properly warmed up. the tape distortion combined with vintage tube amplification would give any sound that bocesque nostalgic tinge. Furthermore, one of these reel-to-reels can still be purchased off of ebay for less than $100, putting it in the established price range. Another cool feature it had was a built-in microphone which im sure was far from high-fidelity. I dont think boc would emphasize a "secret weapon" if it was just a synth. Their magic doesn't come from their synths but from their processes. This leads me to believe it was a R2R/tubeamp combo. Many have already mentioned the grundig r2r's but I have yet to see a convincing "magic eye" on any of their models. Well, there you have it. Thoughts? Comments?


My brother has the exact Regent recorder! Does this mean we possess the dreaded "secret weapon"?! I must use it to create beautiful BoC music at once!


That's super awesome man you should upload some clips, I'd love to hear it. I have a teac a-3340 but its out of commission right now :( so i ususally just record to a crappy 80's cassette dubber. Its pretty cool though if you blast the input gain it gives some really dirty distortion, no pedal needed! Nothing beats reel-to-reel for the true worn tape sound though......

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Man, I love this board. Carry on! :)

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Their secret weapon is the exact same analog mixing console (EMI TG12345) that Pink Floyd used for Dark Side of The Moon. :lol:

Seriously though, that mixing board would be fucking amazing. There were only about 15-20 ever made, with most seeing use through the 1960's and 1970's at Abbey Road Studios. There's more info here.

Image

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Helicoid wrote:I don't mean to beat a dead horse here, but i believe i know what the "secret weapon" is and surprisingly, no one has mentioned it at all. I know most of you believe it is a synth, but I personally think the secret weapon is something more than that. I believe the "magic eye that opens up" clue is the most important, yet it has been the most overlooked. Getting to the point, Webcor was an electronic equipment manufacturer in the 40's-50's that made a line of tube-amplified reel-to-reel recorders that happen to have a "Magic Eye" valve that "opens" and lights up green when the tubes are properly warmed up. the tape distortion combined with vintage tube amplification would give any sound that bocesque nostalgic tinge. Furthermore, one of these reel-to-reels can still be purchased off of ebay for less than $100, putting it in the established price range. Another cool feature it had was a built-in microphone which im sure was far from high-fidelity. I dont think boc would emphasize a "secret weapon" if it was just a synth. Their magic doesn't come from their synths but from their processes. This leads me to believe it was a R2R/tubeamp combo. Many have already mentioned the grundig r2r's but I have yet to see a convincing "magic eye" on any of their models. Well, there you have it. Thoughts? Comments?


http://bocpages.org/wiki/Emotional_Abuse

REMIX wrote:In keeping with the in-and-out-of-consciousness, dreamlike quality of their music, Sandison and Eoin don't write and record in any sort of linear fashion. Rather, at any given time, they have various song ideas gestating in their two primary studios. With three kits, Sandison's studio is set up for drums, and Eoin's live area caters to piano and vocals. Whether they're working separately or together, getting ideas down is generally a result of recording extended jams to tape on anything from a Tascam MSR-16 reel-to-reel to an old Revox recorder to a Grundig machine to an ordinary cassette.
“We love these low-quality tape machines,” Eoin says. “The great thing with machines such as the Grundig is that it's tragically bad. Whatever you record into it just doesn't come out unscathed. There's a ‘magic eye’ valve display on it, and when you hit the tape deck with the right volume, enough to fill out the magic eye, it's at that exact sweet spot that it is saturating the tape. So if you then sample back the playback, it's got a thousand years' grain on it.”

actually I'd put this as probably the best BOC interview.

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Techboy wrote:
Helicoid wrote:I don't mean to beat a dead horse here, but i believe i know what the "secret weapon" is and surprisingly, no one has mentioned it at all. I know most of you believe it is a synth, but I personally think the secret weapon is something more than that. I believe the "magic eye that opens up" clue is the most important, yet it has been the most overlooked. Getting to the point, Webcor was an electronic equipment manufacturer in the 40's-50's that made a line of tube-amplified reel-to-reel recorders that happen to have a "Magic Eye" valve that "opens" and lights up green when the tubes are properly warmed up. the tape distortion combined with vintage tube amplification would give any sound that bocesque nostalgic tinge. Furthermore, one of these reel-to-reels can still be purchased off of ebay for less than $100, putting it in the established price range. Another cool feature it had was a built-in microphone which im sure was far from high-fidelity. I dont think boc would emphasize a "secret weapon" if it was just a synth. Their magic doesn't come from their synths but from their processes. This leads me to believe it was a R2R/tubeamp combo. Many have already mentioned the grundig r2r's but I have yet to see a convincing "magic eye" on any of their models. Well, there you have it. Thoughts? Comments?


http://bocpages.org/wiki/Emotional_Abuse

REMIX wrote:In keeping with the in-and-out-of-consciousness, dreamlike quality of their music, Sandison and Eoin don't write and record in any sort of linear fashion. Rather, at any given time, they have various song ideas gestating in their two primary studios. With three kits, Sandison's studio is set up for drums, and Eoin's live area caters to piano and vocals. Whether they're working separately or together, getting ideas down is generally a result of recording extended jams to tape on anything from a Tascam MSR-16 reel-to-reel to an old Revox recorder to a Grundig machine to an ordinary cassette.
“We love these low-quality tape machines,” Eoin says. “The great thing with machines such as the Grundig is that it's tragically bad. Whatever you record into it just doesn't come out unscathed. There's a ‘magic eye’ valve display on it, and when you hit the tape deck with the right volume, enough to fill out the magic eye, it's at that exact sweet spot that it is saturating the tape. So if you then sample back the playback, it's got a thousand years' grain on it.”

actually I'd put this as probably the best BOC interview.


Ah alas, my theory is debunked. I knew someone more knowledgeable would come along to shoot me down in a blaze of credible sources. Really, good job with that though. I'm not sure why I thought their secret weapon had the magic eye. Oh well, that's my adventure for a day. Back to studying for calculus.

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Only scanned this mental thread but the pic is a CS80 from he get go. It's not a secret weapon but it's sure a dream beast of a synth. BOC don't really have a complicated synth sound, most of what they do can be pretty much done on a Roland monosynth, a vintage poly/stringer of some sort or reverbed out piano. The secret is what is done to it afterwards. They colour everything so much that you could not get the exact timbre if you tried. but that has been said a million times before obviously.
You could feel the bullshit

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Helicoid wrote:Ah alas, my theory is debunked. I knew someone more knowledgeable would come along to shoot me down in a blaze of credible sources. Really, good job with that though. I'm not sure why I thought their secret weapon had the magic eye. Oh well, that's my adventure for a day. Back to studying for calculus.
haha :) Well that thing /does/ have a magic eye so you definitely got that right.

To be honest I think it's totally possible that the grundig they mentioned in the interview IS their secret weapon... or rather, was :)

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wash wrote:wish i could afford one of these :(


to be honest a tape machine of the type they are claiming they use can be had seriously cheap these days.

The CS80/70m would be a bit pricey. There are options that get you very close to the cs80/70 sound when you consider a cs60 or 50 (have one oscillator but polyphonic) or a cs30 (has two osc but monophonic) which all use the same chips and can get very close to the big cs sound.

Anyway i don't think there is any one single secret weapon its a collection of things. I also reckon they use computers more than they let on. Was it a surprise to anyone that the masters used to produce the repress album for geogaddi was a dat for example?

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