BoC & music theory

[deadfly]

Thank you for all the effort you put into this, 15Dreams. I think I speak for the whole community in saying that.

Yes - it's the best thread on the forum imo. Maybe it should be made into a sticky?

[15Dreams]

Hi 15Dreams,

I don't mean to push, but was just wondering if you were still doing 'Sick Times', or if you've forgotten...?

just a gentle reminder! Take your time

thanks in advance

Huh this one didn't make it onto my list but here ya go:

Sick Times is tuned down to A434ish which gives it that deeper, sicker (I guess?) sound - also the pitch-wobbly synths help. Chords:

Spoiler: show

B5/F#
GQ/D (G Quintal = G D A up top but with a D on the bottom, spread out over different synths)
F#m7/C# - one of the synths plays a B halfway through the chord which is sort of a passing tone to the next chord
A5add2/E (A B E with an E on the bottom)
GMaj7 - there's an A played during it that then leads into a G# which passes us on to
Bm/D
F#m7/C# - this time the passing note is a G
E5
A5add2
Bm7/D - passing note is G# which leads into the next chord

These chords loop for the first three sections of the song, the intro (0:00-0:45), the drum part (0:45-1:30), and the crispier drum part (1:30-2:45).

Muffled beat outro (2:15-2:52) has chords that are just F#5 and G5 on a loop repeated four times. The outro is essentially just a B5 (implied minor as a result of the key) chord with some wobbling around in the bass (it dips down to A and F# quickly but comes back up to a B). There are a lot of various bleeps and bloops littered throughout it that play a few random notes that adhere to B Minor.

Once again BoC rely on mixed modality here - the song could be in either B Minor or F# Minor. Because it ends pretty firmly on a B though I'll say B Minor. A couple of things that might be of interest is that the chord sequence once again goes in a pattern of 5's/10's depending on how you look at it, so it's sort of another use of their 5-chord trick. Another interesting thing for the numerologists to note is that the 3 first parts of the song all fit almost exactly into chunks of 45 seconds...the "drop" is at 0:45 and the crispiness (which is also where the chord sequence restarts) is at a little after 1:30. Then the closing drum part is quite a bit behind 2:15. So does 45 mean anything to anybody? That's the big number I'd pull out of this.

The only other thing that might be of interest is if we make the key signature B Minor, the bass note plays every note of the B Minor scale once - except for the B, which doesn't get played until the end. Make of that what you will because the only thing I can figure is they wanted to wring out the tension in the song until the very end. Up until 2:52 when the B plays the whole song has a very unrelaxed, tense feel because the chords never resolve. Sick? Maybe for my classically-trained mind which wants to hear the resolution...

[15Dreams]

Ah, I was hoping you would do Skyliner - thank you. it's a real stunner, one of my all time favorites of theirs and blows Dayvan Cowboy clear out of the water. I've always been intrigued with the circular chord progression that never quite feels settled. Each chord feels like a little plateau - we move up and down and occasionally rest in a moment of balance/harmony before beginning another cycle. It's fascinating.

It's very unsettling to me. Maybe that's what bugs me about it.

It's a bit like Telephasic Workshop in the sense its like a wheel set in motion and there's a slow build of drama with each rotation. Skyliner's drama is a bit more subtle than Telephasic's rapid-fire kick drums and chopped-up voices - it mostly in those little synth flourishes that pop up periodically, like the burst that we first hear at 1:02 that is basically the audio equivalent of 80s lens flare on a hot day.

Funny; I know saying this here is basically sacrilege but Telephasic Workshop has never really fallen into place for me either. Again maybe this is why.

To me its one of their most emotional series of chords (along with Sundown & Corsair) and despite its constant shifting/instability it ultimately sounds very hopeful. To me its the most resolutely positive sounding composition of theirs since Zoetrope.

Well I'm glad to hear it works for you! Agreed on Sundown & Corsair for sure, and since it's an easy one that I've known for awhile here's a quick explanation of Corsair. The main drone is a Bb5 chord on a loop. The bass goes F, Gb, G, Ab on a loop while some other synths dance around and follow that chord pattern. Also oddly enough it's at A440 with some pitch wobbling to give it that uneasy sound. This one's great because after the Gb plays you kind of expect the next note to be Ab, following the Bb Minor scale (which is the key I'd put Corsair in) - but it's not, it's a G natural, which kind of raises it into Bb Major for a second. At the same time the G plays in the bass, one of the synths hits a D, further reinforcing the Bb Major idea, but then the Ab comes along and returns it to Bb Minor, or at least Bb Mixolydian. It's very hopeful and yet doesn't quite make it to Bb Major...

[15Dreams]

Thank you for all the effort you put into this, 15Dreams. I think I speak for the whole community in saying that.

Yes - it's the best thread on the forum imo. Maybe it should be made into a sticky?

Thanks guys glad to see you're enjoying it!

I had a thought awhile ago - since BoC introduced the open 5ths/quintal sound in Tomorrow's Harvest, adding it to their palette of unusual chord progressions and voicings, what kind of chords would everyone like to see used more on their next album?

I for one would be thrilled to see them make use of atonality, where there's no key and everything sounds dissonant (see this example):

Spoiler: show

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L85XTLr5eBE

Although I don't really think that would fit with the theme of their next album unless it's about the end of the world after TH...if they were to use something more reasonable, maybe cluster chords would be more fun. Here are a video and a Wikipedia page about those if you want to learn what they are:

Spoiler: show

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfOtndzG-yA

Spoiler: show

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_cluster

They would certainly contrast the openness of TH's 5ths. Maybe if BoC do go for a warmer album (similar to TCH after Geogaddi) next they'd be a good fit. But I'm sure I'll enjoy whatever new theoretical madness they throw at us.

[Echo the Sun]

Thanks guys glad to see you're enjoying it!

I had a thought awhile ago - since BoC introduced the open 5ths/quintal sound in Tomorrow's Harvest, adding it to their palette of unusual chord progressions and voicings, what kind of chords would everyone like to see used more on their next album?

I for one would be thrilled to see them make use of atonality, where there's no key and everything sounds dissonant

For some reason, when music lacks tonal centre, and everything should seem dissonant, my brain adjusts so nothing feels as dissonant as a dissonant chord would in a song with a tonal centre.

Aside from complete atonality, I would also like BOC to experiment with non-pitch centric modality or pitch centric chromaticism. I don't want something akin to Aphex Twin, though. I like Aphex Twin, but I want something new.

[Gates Of Horn And Ivory]

I'd be really interested to see what you make of An Eagle in your Mind

[15Dreams]

Apologies for the delay, winter quarter has begun...

An Eagle in Your Mind is tuned a bit lower than A440 (maybe A438), best guess for a tonal center is F# but there's no distinguishable mode that the piece stays in.

The track begins with a nice little pad playing the high notes C# and F#. The pad has a tiny bit of LFO on the pitch so it has that wobbly sound also heard in Whitewater, In the Annexe, Smokes Quantity, and others. The flutey pad that fades in isn't playing chords so much as a polyphonic little melody shown here:

Spoiler: show

The idea of polyphonic texture means that there are multiple different lines playing over each other in a song, rather than a bunch of chords with a single melody. Polyphony is a technique BoC utilized a lot in their earlier albums; in a way this creates an interesting parallel to classical music styles, because the first "classical" composers like Bach and the early 16th-century music pioneers often relied on polyphony, whereas chordal/melodic structure developed later with composers like Mozart and Beethoven. Because An Eagle in Your Mind has a number of distinct parts floating around the track I'm going to analyze it from a polyphonic perspective, although you could certainly come up with chords if you tried.

After the flute/pad intro the track relies on the percussion to build itself up until about 2:52 when the beat changes. One thing that's notable about the change in the beat is that from the beginning until 2:52 most of the snares/kicks/sounds used as percussion are significantly outside a regular rhythm pattern. The only thing that keeps the downbeat is the deep kick that plays every 2 measures, most of the other percussion parts are extremely syncopated. Thus, when the beat shifts at 2:52 (right after the "I love you" sample), it becomes a much more relaxed, regular rhythm, and sort of mellows out the urgency of the first part. Also starting at 3:06, a new synth is added to the mix, which plays improvisatory combinations of the notes D#, F#, G#, and A#. This stops at 3:32, and at that same time the bass begins to fade in, playing a loop of B, E#, and A which continues throughout the rest of the piece. At this point, if I were to attempt to analyze the piece relying on chords, it would look like B Major, E#5 (just E# and B#), and F#m6 (first inversion, basically F# Minor over an A). And because I'm guessing someone will take issue with an E# chord, it is actually a perfectly valid chord option, and preferable to F5 here because E# fits better in musical language with F# than F does. More on that here if anyone's confused:

Spoiler: show

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enharmonic

The other thing that begins to occur starting at 3:32 is the return of the irregular beats, building to a climax at about 4:12, where two things happen. The first is that we get a new high synth (with more LFO'd pitch) which plays this line:

Spoiler: show

The second is that the irregular beat cuts off again and we get another pretty straight-forward kick-snare pattern. After a quick break at 4:42 another melodic line fades in, playing C# -> B over the B in the bass and then B -> A over the A in the bass. At 4:42 the synth "flourishes" begin as well. Whilst the E# in the bass is playing, the flourishes are actually playing parts of a whole-tone scale, namely the first flourish is C# D# F G A, and the second is A B C# D#. For a quick overview of what a whole-tone scale is, basically you just pick a note and ascend by major seconds each time. This means there are really only 2 whole-tone scales, and the starting note has no "tonic" function: either start on C or C# and go up by whole step.

At 5:12 the high synth from 4:12 repeats its line again. The rest of the song is just the other 2 melodic lines introduced at 4:42 getting progressively louder while the beats get more aggressive. I will fully admit that I have no idea what is being played at 6:18 (the final "flourish") but it sounds vaguely whole-tone and the pitch might be shifting slightly during the whole thing. My guess is it's some sample from something that BoC spent hours messing with until it was indistinguishable.

So, what makes this song tick? I've always gotten a bit of an uneasy feeling from it, probably due to the erratic beats, the pitch wobbles, the borderline-atonal polyphony (the MHtRtC period is, in my opinion, the closest BoC ever got to achieving atonality), and definitely the whole-tone scales. Try playing a whole-tone scale on your instrument of choice; it's a very unsettling scale. Obviously the percussion is a huge selling point as well, the sequencing and samples are fantastic. Out of the lengthier tracks on MHtRtC, this is definitely one of my favorites.

[Torn n Frayed]

IDK have you done Reach the Dead yet? I found there's a flat bass note that tunes up as it's played, and it's on every 1st note of the bar. It's impossible to hear on shitty PC speakers, I only found it listening to it on a massive system with a sub.

[15Dreams]

IDK have you done Reach the Dead yet? I found there's a flat bass note that tunes up as it's played, and it's on every 1st note of the bar. It's impossible to hear on shitty PC speakers, I only found it listening to it on a massive system with a sub.

Have not yet and will plan on trying to find time over the weekend.

As far as a flat note, the bass synth does have a bit of pitch wobble on it so maybe that's what you're referring to? but I'll listen to it with good speakers and find out

[Torn n Frayed]

IDK have you done Reach the Dead yet? I found there's a flat bass note that tunes up as it's played, and it's on every 1st note of the bar. It's impossible to hear on shitty PC speakers, I only found it listening to it on a massive system with a sub.

Have not yet and will plan on trying to find time over the weekend.

As far as a flat note, the bass synth does have a bit of pitch wobble on it so maybe that's what you're referring to? but I'll listen to it with good speakers and find out

Thanks, it's very obvious once you add a sub woofer, they're so meticulous with song-crafting I can't see this being a mistake. But it does sound a bit foul..

[Cupz]

I don't think tomorrows harvest is made all that meticulously.

[Torn n Frayed]

I don't think tomorrows harvest is made all that meticulously.

Maybe should have added 'usually'..

[15Dreams]

IDK have you done Reach the Dead yet? I found there's a flat bass note that tunes up as it's played, and it's on every 1st note of the bar. It's impossible to hear on shitty PC speakers, I only found it listening to it on a massive system with a sub.

Have not yet and will plan on trying to find time over the weekend.

As far as a flat note, the bass synth does have a bit of pitch wobble on it so maybe that's what you're referring to? but I'll listen to it with good speakers and find out

Just realized this is still a thing. I might have time this week but no guarantees, apologies for forgetting.

[Torn n Frayed]

IDK have you done Reach the Dead yet? I found there's a flat bass note that tunes up as it's played, and it's on every 1st note of the bar. It's impossible to hear on shitty PC speakers, I only found it listening to it on a massive system with a sub.

Have not yet and will plan on trying to find time over the weekend.

As far as a flat note, the bass synth does have a bit of pitch wobble on it so maybe that's what you're referring to? but I'll listen to it with good speakers and find out

Just realized this is still a thing. I might have time this week but no guarantees, apologies for forgetting.

It starts around 1:11 in the song..

[15Dreams]

Reach for the Dead (tuning isn't consistent but maybe A438??) - Eb Minor

Starts with 56 seconds of Eb5; punctuated mostly by playing with the filters or whatever effects they've got on the synth. At 0:56, the bass drops to a Db, then a Cb, and then an F before returning to the Eb. Then it plays another Db and returns to the Eb. The F is where Torn n Frayed is describing the wobbly tuning, and this is a result of one of the voices of the synth bass being significantly out-of-tune. However, it's also very slightly present on the Db and Cb if you listen closely. This effect is basically the same thing as a "chorus" effect where more voices are added, each slightly detuned, in order to give the note a "fuller" sound. However, generally you don't do that to your sub-bass notes as it will make them sound wobbly and a bit crunchy. BoC do this here to give the song that disturbing feeling.

Starting at 1:39 it repeats the same Db Cb F Eb progression from earlier - interestingly enough, the Db and Cb don't have the detuned effect anymore while the F still does. This same pattern of Eb Db Cb F Eb Db (six-chord phrases...) continues throughout the rest of the song. The Db hits another very crunchy detuned voice at 3:03, while the F consistently (every single time it gets played) has the severely detuned voice at the beginning. The final Eb chord hits at 4:07 and continues for the rest of the song.

The little synth melody that plays over each line is as follows, and though I have it lined up with the Eb and Db notes, it continues the same for Cb to F as well:



My best guess for chords would be Ebm Bbm6 (first inversion explains the Db in the bass) CbMaj7 Bbm6/4 (second inversion - obviously not functional here) Ebm Bbm6. Not one of their most harmonically interesting pieces but the most enjoyable part of this song IMO is the intense amount of pitch wobbling used on the bass, pads, and pretty much anything else in this song. Also the downsampled drums are pretty wonderful.

And since it was mentioned earlier in some other thread - I'll mention the reasons why this song could or could not be a reworking of XYZ (from a music theory standpoint):

* The songs are in different keys. RftD is in Eb/D# Minor (I chose Eb for analysis because of personal preference) while XYZ is in F# Minor.

* The progressions are different. Besides the i chord, obviously, XYZ's progression has none of the same chords function-wise that RftD does. Not to mention XYZ gives up on any harmonic change after about 3 minutes and just hangs on an F#...

* XYZ is primarily based on a sample from "It Would Be Like Samoa" by Edgar Froese and features a number of guitar samples or live performances (given that this was from a studio I wouldn't be surprised if the guitar we hear is one or both of the brothers playing). Reach for the Dead includes no guitar as far as I can tell and no Froese sample.

* The percussion is generally different. XYZ has a much faster and more erratic percussion track than RftD, and feels like a typical song from BoC's short-lived "techno period" from the 90's. This period is defined by tracks like Chinook (in fact I'm pretty sure XYZ has some samples from Chinook), Sixtyten, and Basefree, and personally I'd love to hear more of it.

I'll leave it up to you to formulate your own opinions on the relatedness of these songs

[Torn n Frayed]

Awesome, ta very much!!!

[Evenflow]

Nothing Is Real:

The main melody goes, starting on the upbeat:

Spoiler: show

I'm still learning how to read music so can someone translate the music above for me so I can understand .

Thanks

[Evenflow]

Have not yet and will plan on trying to find time over the weekend.

Nothing Is Real:

The main melody goes, starting on the upbeat:

Spoiler: show

I'm still learning how to read music so can someone translate the music above for me so I can understand .

Thanks

[15Dreams]

Nothing Is Real:

The main melody goes, starting on the upbeat:

Spoiler: show

I'm still learning how to read music so can someone translate the music above for me so I can understand .

Thanks

Not sure what you mean by "translate." That's just standard musical notation, which you can learn how to read easily by googling "how to read sheet music." There's really no quick way to learn it, just get used to where note names are on the staff and how rhythm is notated.

If you mean what names the notes are it's just Eb, D, Bb, D, F, Bb.

[deadfly]

Nothing Is Real:

The main melody goes, starting on the upbeat:

Spoiler: show

I'm still learning how to read music so can someone translate the music above for me so I can understand .

Thanks

I recommend this book - it's easy to read and you''ll understand all the basics in a couple of hours

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AB-Guide-Music ... sic+theory

If you mean what names the notes are it's just Eb, D, Bb, D, F, Bb.[/quote]