BoC & music theory

[15Dreams]

Hey, everyone. Once again sorry to drop off the face of the earth; hopefully I will be able to get some analysis done around Thanksgiving break.

In the meantime, I found one of my older compositions awhile back that was significantly inspired by Sundown (and its chords). Figured some of you might find it interesting...

Link (ignore the video part it's not great):

Spoiler: show

https://youtu.be/P2ZlOcFBcDY

Chord progression (all tuned to A432):

G5add2add4 (just a fancy way of saying G, A, C, D)

Cadd2 (C, G, E, D)

Gbadd2add6 (Gb, Ab, Bb, Db, Eb)

EbQ (Eb, Bb, F, C)

Dadd6 (D, A, F#, B)

Amadd4 (A, C, D, E)

E7add9 (E, G#, B, D, F#)

Bmadd9 (B, D, F#, C#)

F#m (I'm not going to spell this one out )

Gbadd6add9 (Gb Bb Db Eb Ab)

EbQ (Eb Bb F C)

AbQ#11 (Ab, Eb, Bb, D)

Fm7add4 (F, Ab, Bb, C, Eb)

Ebadd2add6 (Eb, F, G, Bb, C)

Gbadd2 (Gb, Ab, Bb, Db) (upper Eb pedal point)

AbMaj7 (Ab, C, Eb, G) (upper Bb pedal point)

Fm7add4 (F, Ab, Bb, C, Eb)

Might add more to the song later, but right now I'm happy with where it is.

[15Dreams]

Absolutely no promises on any of these because loops are confusing and the song is way too complex to analyze perfectly but here's my best guess at

Jacquard Causeway List of Loops (tuning A445):

(H) indicates high-range
(M) indicates mid-range
(B) indicates bass-range

0:02 - B F# E A (lower F# held) (H)

0:08 - A G F# (H)

0:14 - B C# (H)

0:19 - D B (M)

0:28 - E F# (M)

0:36 - A B B(octave lower) (M)

0:40 - E D A B (H)

0:46 - B (with delay) (H)

0:50 - D C# (H)

0:55 - E B (H)

1:03 - A E A F# (H)

1:06 - B (B)

1:13 - B G (B)

1:39 - D F# B (M)

1:41 - A F# E (M)

1:43 - B E (H)

1:53 - G F# E G A (H)

1:59 - D-G (interval, perfect 4th) (M)

2:08 - F# (H)

2:10 - B G (B)

2:15 - B A (H)

2:31 - F#-B (interval, perfect 4th) (M)

2:43 - F# D C# (H)

2:50 - F# D (M)

2:56 - B G F# (H)

3:11 - A G(octave up) B(next to the A) (M)

3:18 - A D E (M)

3:27 - B B E (H)

3:37 - B C# (H)

3:46 - D C# (H)

3:46 - pads begin (Bm9, GM9) - note: at this point the mid-range ones become a lot harder to hear and I probably start missing most of them

4:01 - B E F# (M)

4:12 - B E C# (H)

4:24 - C# A G A (H)

4:26 - F# (H)

4:32 - E F# (H)

4:39 - B D E (M)

4:41 - B F# (H)

4:55 - B A G F# (H)

5:12 - D (H)

5:15 - some weird sonar-ping-esque B (M)

5:20 - B (M)

5:36 - B C# D(octave down) E(octdown) (H)

5:58 - E A D (H)

The 5:36 loop and the pads seem to be the only ones making it out alive after the final drum hit at 6:06.

[15Dreams]

This is pretty cool, even though parts are slightly above my head.
Do you think BoC even work with any of this in mind or just make what sounds good to them?
I'd love/be really interested to see an analysation of some of my music as i'm in the latter camp where I just play what I think.

I have no clue how much BoC know about music theory. I'd say they are probably at least somewhat attuned to what they are doing; I doubt they are using all the fancy symbols and technical aspects that I'm writing in.

Post a link to one of your songs and I'll give it a try!

[15Dreams]

A few other quick mentions that I saw requested somewhere but can't find in this thread...

Dawn Chorus is in Bb Mixolydian (key signature Eb but Bb is the tonic) detuned to A437ish. The intro with the ice cream truck (I think that's what it is) goes:

Spoiler: show

Chords are Bb Major and then F Minor. The pattern starting at 0:38 goes C Ab Bb over and over in 3/8 while the rest of the song keeps playing in 4/4. Random screams and samples ensue.

Chinook is largely percussion-based and doesn't really have a key because there are no chords, each note is a drone by itself: B D Bb G E. The little melodic figure that pops up halfway throughout the song goes:

Spoiler: show

The reason I have the time signature listed as 6/4 is because the melody of the song is in 6/4 while the percussion is in 4/4...well, most of it. The distorted part beginning at 1:58 plays in 3/8. Also, the version I'm analyzing here is the smaller one from BOC Maxima. The longer version from the Aquarius single leaves the time signature in the dust somewhere around the 5-minute mark and then plays in ∞/πe for the rest of the song. Quite an interesting deviation from the norm for BoC.

[Soul_Slip]

Absolutely no promises on any of these because loops are confusing and the song is way too complex to analyze perfectly but here's my best guess at

Jacquard Causeway List of Loops (tuning A445):

(H) indicates high-range
(M) indicates mid-range
(B) indicates bass-range

0:02 - B F# E A (lower F# held) (H)

0:08 - A G F# (H)

0:14 - B C# (H)

0:19 - D B (M)

0:28 - E F# (M)

0:36 - A B B(octave lower) (M)

0:40 - E D A B (H)

0:46 - B (with delay) (H)

0:50 - D C# (H)

0:55 - E B (H)

1:03 - A E A F# (H)

1:06 - B (B)

1:13 - B G (B)

1:39 - D F# B (M)

1:41 - A F# E (M)

1:43 - B E (H)

1:53 - G F# E G A (H)

1:59 - D-G (interval, perfect 4th) (M)

2:08 - F# (H)

2:10 - B G (B)

2:15 - B A (H)

2:31 - F#-B (interval, perfect 4th) (M)

2:43 - F# D C# (H)

2:50 - F# D (M)

2:56 - B G F# (H)

3:11 - A G(octave up) B(next to the A) (M)

3:18 - A D E (M)

3:27 - B B E (H)

3:37 - B C# (H)

3:46 - D C# (H)

3:46 - pads begin (Bm9, GM9) - note: at this point the mid-range ones become a lot harder to hear and I probably start missing most of them

4:01 - B E F# (M)

4:12 - B E C# (H)

4:24 - C# A G A (H)

4:26 - F# (H)

4:32 - E F# (H)

4:39 - B D E (M)

4:41 - B F# (H)

4:55 - B A G F# (H)

5:12 - D (H)

5:15 - some weird sonar-ping-esque B (M)

5:20 - B (M)

5:36 - B C# D(octave down) E(octdown) (H)

5:58 - E A D (H)

The 5:36 loop and the pads seem to be the only ones making it out alive after the final drum hit at 6:06.

Wow thanks my friend! Yes I agree, very layered and complex... Just looking once at those loops gives me a double take... Love It!!

[Evenflow]

A few other quick mentions that I saw requested somewhere but can't find in this thread...

Wow signed up just for this .
My very 1st post here after searching for a very long time .
Your work here is amazing thanks for contributing it's truly appreciated .

@ 15Dreams I hope you can squeeze a few more in , it's two songs that I think are some of the most underrated and it happens to be the two that haunts me with their beutiful chord progressions and melody . Can you please do " 84 Pontiac Dream " and " Nothing is Real " ?

Thanks

[chodytaint]

I was playing around with my guitar and came up with this arrangement for the guitar intro to Peacock Tail. Not sure how accurate it is, but I think it sounds pretty close... especially with some delay. Tuning is drop D, I have a capo on the first fret to make the second and third bars a little easier.

[jm031689]

The Friendly Signal sounds incredible 15Dreams. I'm regularly amazed by some of the talented people around here.

[15Dreams]

The Friendly Signal sounds incredible 15Dreams. I'm regularly amazed by some of the talented people around here.

Thank you!

@ 15Dreams I hope you can squeeze a few more in , it's two songs that I think are some of the most underrated and it happens to be the two that haunts me with their beutiful chord progressions and melody . Can you please do " 84 Pontiac Dream " and " Nothing is Real " ?

Thanks

Indeed. I'll write up a full post about it real quick.

I was playing around with my guitar and came up with this arrangement for the guitar intro to Peacock Tail. Not sure how accurate it is, but I think it sounds pretty close... especially with some delay. Tuning is drop D, I have a capo on the first fret to make the second and third bars a little easier.

Close - I think the top note in the second measure should be an A flat though. Here's a quick theoretical take on it:

Chords are a consistent 7-chord loop of Gb, Db, Ab, Eb, Ab7/Gb (third inversion of a dominant seventh), Bb/F (second inversion of a Bb major chord), F. Once again the selling point here is the mixed modality; for the first three chords our minds guess Db Major as the key but the last two point to Bb Major instead. The Gb, Db, Ab, Eb part is another reverse circle progression that BoC also utilizes in Whitewater, where the chords are Eb, Bb, F, C, G (all major). In fact, if you were to squish the two songs together joined at the Eb chords you'd have a nice pattern of 4ths covering almost all the flat keys:

Spoiler: show

https://soundcloud.com/karla-townson/peacock-tail

[15Dreams]

'84 Pontiac Dream:

(tuned down to around A430 as per usual)

The first 5-chord sequence consists of Cminadd9 (just C minor but with a D on top), EbMaj7, Dm, Am, EbMaj7. Unfortunately I can't transcribe the sequence of notes at 0:24, but at 0:27 a synth plays a sequence of ascending perfect fifths: Eb Bb F C G over the EbMaj7 chord. This is another testament to BoC's use of quintal chords, chords built around 5ths.

There are a couple more bits and bobs until the first real "lead" synth comes in at 0:59, playing the following:

Spoiler: show

(note that on the last two measures, a higher synth plays C A G over it)

The rest is just the same 5-chord sequence, with melodic variations on top. The guitar bit beginning at 3:03 is actually the same chord progression, though treated differently.

Once again the progression drifts between Cm/Eb Major and D minor in terms of key. I wrote the synth part in Cm/Eb since the melody seemed to follow that. The 5th chord, the EbMaj7, comes at an interesting position, after the Am, making it a tritone leap. Wild stuff, and certainly fits the bill for "the magic unexpected 5th chord" mentioned earlier.

Something else that seems notable here is the overall form of the piece, you've got 3 loops of the progression at the start, then 2 with the synth melody, then 1 less dense loop without as much melody, then 1 more like the beginning, then 2 more with melody, then 1 like the beginning. Then 2 that fade with the guitar bit to close us out. It has much more of an almost classical-like ABA pattern with a coda. This is pretty out of the norm for BoC as most of their pieces seem to rely on building up the same kind of section dynamically.

[15Dreams]

Nothing Is Real:

The main melody goes, starting on the upbeat:

Spoiler: show

The bass notes (which don't really create proper chords), beginning at 0:32, are a C for 1 measure followed by an Ab for 2, then repeated. Oddly enough this piece is looped in segments 3 measures long, giving each 3rd measure of a bit of an empty feel. Starting at 0:56 the bass switches to G for one measure and then Ab for two, before returning to C-Ab at 1:12. This pattern of 3 phrases with C-Ab and 2 phrases of G-Ab continues throughout the song. So, for all you number theory fans out there, that implies a rhythmic feel of 5 - Telepath anyone?

Musically though there's not a lot here. The synth loop and the arpeggio stuff towards the end (another part I can't transcribe due to speed) seem to strongly imply Bb Major so that'd be my best guess as far as key. The Ab in the bass creates a sort of Bb dominant seventh chord that gives it a nice nostalgic feeling (that's what that particular chord gives me, anyway).

[Evenflow]

'84 Pontiac Dream:

(tuned down to around A430 as per usual)

The first 5-chord sequence consists of Cminadd9 (just C minor but with a D on top), EbMaj7, Dm, Am, EbMaj7. Unfortunately I can't transcribe the sequence of notes at 0:24, but at 0:27 a synth plays a sequence of ascending perfect fifths: Eb Bb F C G over the EbMaj7 chord. This is another testament to BoC's use of quintal chords, chords built around 5ths.

There are a couple more bits and bobs until the first real "lead" synth comes in at 0:59, playing the following:

Spoiler: show

(note that on the last two measures, a higher synth plays C A G over it)

The rest is just the same 5-chord sequence, with melodic variations on top. The guitar bit beginning at 3:03 is actually the same chord progression, though treated differently.

Once again the progression drifts between Cm/Eb Major and D minor in terms of key. I wrote the synth part in Cm/Eb since the melody seemed to follow that. The 5th chord, the EbMaj7, comes at an interesting position, after the Am, making it a tritone leap. Wild stuff, and certainly fits the bill for "the magic unexpected 5th chord" mentioned earlier.

Something else that seems notable here is the overall form of the piece, you've got 3 loops of the progression at the start, then 2 with the synth melody, then 1 less dense loop without as much melody, then 1 more like the beginning, then 2 more with melody, then 1 like the beginning. Then 2 that fade with the guitar bit to close us out. It has much more of an almost classical-like ABA pattern with a coda. This is pretty out of the norm for BoC as most of their pieces seem to rely on building up the same kind of section dynamically.

Amazing , thank you !
Are any of these ambiguous ?
Thats something new I learned researching there music is the use of ambiguous chords (meaning not major or minor ) .
Even if they don't use them in the two songs I asked about can you talk about BOC use of ambiguous chord progressions . I think I read somewhere that they used them often or maybe it was Sus chords not sure if sus chords are considered ambiguous .
Would luv to hear your thoughts on this .

[ScienceGuy]

'84 Pontiac Dream:

(tuned down to around A430 as per usual)

The first 5-chord sequence consists of Cminadd9 (just C minor but with a D on top), EbMaj7, Dm, Am, EbMaj7. Unfortunately I can't transcribe the sequence of notes at 0:24, but at 0:27 a synth plays a sequence of ascending perfect fifths: Eb Bb F C G over the EbMaj7 chord. This is another testament to BoC's use of quintal chords, chords built around 5ths.

There are a couple more bits and bobs until the first real "lead" synth comes in at 0:59, playing the following:

Spoiler: show

(note that on the last two measures, a higher synth plays C A G over it)

The rest is just the same 5-chord sequence, with melodic variations on top. The guitar bit beginning at 3:03 is actually the same chord progression, though treated differently.

Once again the progression drifts between Cm/Eb Major and D minor in terms of key. I wrote the synth part in Cm/Eb since the melody seemed to follow that. The 5th chord, the EbMaj7, comes at an interesting position, after the Am, making it a tritone leap. Wild stuff, and certainly fits the bill for "the magic unexpected 5th chord" mentioned earlier.

Something else that seems notable here is the overall form of the piece, you've got 3 loops of the progression at the start, then 2 with the synth melody, then 1 less dense loop without as much melody, then 1 more like the beginning, then 2 more with melody, then 1 like the beginning. Then 2 that fade with the guitar bit to close us out. It has much more of an almost classical-like ABA pattern with a coda. This is pretty out of the norm for BoC as most of their pieces seem to rely on building up the same kind of section dynamically.

Amazing , thank you !
Are any of these ambiguous ?
Thats something new I learned researching there music is the use of ambiguous chords (meaning not major or minor ) .
Even if they don't use them in the two songs I asked about can you talk about BOC use of ambiguous chord progressions . I think I read somewhere that they used them often or maybe it was Sus chords not sure if sus chords are considered ambiguous .
Would luv to hear your thoughts on this .

I asked for an analysis of Skyliner a while back specifically because of the sheer number of suspended chords that track makes use of. Can't blame 15Dreams for taking a long time, it's one of the more difficult BoC tracks to make sense of (also I think he [she?] might have forgot, this is a reminder ).

[15Dreams]

Are any of these ambiguous ?
Thats something new I learned researching there music is the use of ambiguous chords (meaning not major or minor ) .
Even if they don't use them in the two songs I asked about can you talk about BOC use of ambiguous chord progressions . I think I read somewhere that they used them often or maybe it was Sus chords not sure if sus chords are considered ambiguous .
Would luv to hear your thoughts on this .

Never heard the term ambiguous used to describe a chord but there are tons that aren't major or minor...add2, add4 (also known as suspended, abbreviated sus, which is what you're describing I believe), quartals, quintals, cluster chords. The truth is you can use whatever notes you want and there's probably a name for it. BoC are fond of quintal chords as you can see in some of my above analysis and they're all over TH. But in general they do stick with minor and major chords.

I asked for an analysis of Skyliner a while back specifically because of the sheer number of suspended chords that track makes use of. Can't blame 15Dreams for taking a long time, it's one of the more difficult BoC tracks to make sense of (also I think he [she?] might have forgot, this is a reminder ).

Correct in assuming I forgot, idk why this one didn't make it onto my list. Working on it now.

[15Dreams]

Chords for Skyliner (tuned up around A452ish):

Best guess at a key is F Minor...sort of

Spoiler: show

Intro (0:00-0:45):

Abadd2
Cadd4 (briefly, passing)
Ab4/2 (third inversion Ab7)
FQ (F Quintal, F C G)

Ab5
Bb5
Ab4/2
FQ

Bb5
Ab5
Bb5
FQ

Gb5
Ab5
Cadd4
FQ

Part 2 (0:45-1:30):

FQ
Ab5
Gb5
FQ

Bb5
Ab5
Bb5
FQ

Abadd2
Cadd4
Ab4/2
FQ

Ab5
Bb5
Ab4/2
FQ

Part 3 (1:30-2:59):

Bb5
Ab5
Bb5
FQ

Gb5
Ab5
Cadd4
FQ

Bb5
Ab5
Bb5
FQ

(same as above 4x)

Gb5
Ab5
Cadd4
FQ

Part 4 (2:59-4:06):

FQ
Bb5
Ab4/2
FQ

Bb5
Ab5
Bb5
FQ

Abadd2
Cadd4
Ab4/2
FQ

Ab5
Bb5
Ab4/2
FQ

Bb5
Ab5
Bb5
FQ

Gb5
Ab5
Cadd4
FQ

Part 5 (4:06-4:59):

Ab5
Bb5
FQ

Gb5
Ab5
FQ

(same 2 progressions repeat 2x)

Part 6 (4:59-end)

Ab5
F5

on a loop that fades

Phrasings are my best guess but the timing is a bit weird so I can't be sure. I think the add2 & add4 chords are obviously where ScienceGuy heard most of the suspended chord sounds but the F quintal chord has it in a more subtle way too.

The interesting thing about the word suspended in this context is that normally a suspension is a type of nonharmonic tone (meaning doesn't belong in the chords) that resolves immediately afterward - for example, a V with a 4-3 suspension resolving to the I. The idea of having an actual chord be suspended didn't really come about until around the 18th or 19th century when composers stopped resolving their suspensions and just left them in the chords. Boards are clearly doing that here as none of these chords, or their suspensions, really resolve properly.

I've never cared much for this song, probably due to the erratic and changing progressions that don't really go anywhere (IMO). But it was interesting to analyze.

[15Dreams]

Reddit request! 5-9-78 Analysis (for Pseudodionizy):

Key is Bb Mixolydian tuned up to about A450:

Opening pad starts with a Bb Major chord with a C on top which quickly resolves to a D, then jumps up to an F. Then there's an F Minor chord. Then the high synth plays an F, over which the Bb -> Fm progression plays again, punctuated with a Gb Major chord. Then the main progression begins:

Bb Ab Gb

That's literally the progression for the rest of the song. There's also 3 little synth figures that play this over it, this is the first:

Spoiler: show

The second is just a high Bb A on a loop, and the third goes G Ab Bb Eb every other measure or so. There's a few other random synth pads that follow the progression but don't chart any significant melodic waters.

So why does this song get all the praise it does? Well, it's probably 90% just the pads and the progression alone that do it. Parallel major chords have a pretty neat sound to them, and the descending bass helps. Overall there's nothing mind-blowing here but there doesn't have to be.

[tascamview]

Hi 15Dreams,

I don't mean to push, but was just wondering if you were still doing 'Sick Times', or if you've forgotten...?

just a gentle reminder! Take your time

thanks in advance

[breadmaker]

Chords for Skyliner (tuned up around A452ish):

Best guess at a key is F Minor...sort of

Spoiler: show

Intro (0:00-0:45):

Abadd2
Cadd4 (briefly, passing)
Ab4/2 (third inversion Ab7)
FQ (F Quintal, F C G)

Ab5
Bb5
Ab4/2
FQ

Bb5
Ab5
Bb5
FQ

Gb5
Ab5
Cadd4
FQ

Part 2 (0:45-1:30):

FQ
Ab5
Gb5
FQ

Bb5
Ab5
Bb5
FQ

Abadd2
Cadd4
Ab4/2
FQ

Ab5
Bb5
Ab4/2
FQ

Part 3 (1:30-2:59):

Bb5
Ab5
Bb5
FQ

Gb5
Ab5
Cadd4
FQ

Bb5
Ab5
Bb5
FQ

(same as above 4x)

Gb5
Ab5
Cadd4
FQ

Part 4 (2:59-4:06):

FQ
Bb5
Ab4/2
FQ

Bb5
Ab5
Bb5
FQ

Abadd2
Cadd4
Ab4/2
FQ

Ab5
Bb5
Ab4/2
FQ

Bb5
Ab5
Bb5
FQ

Gb5
Ab5
Cadd4
FQ

Part 5 (4:06-4:59):

Ab5
Bb5
FQ

Gb5
Ab5
FQ

(same 2 progressions repeat 2x)

Part 6 (4:59-end)

Ab5
F5

on a loop that fades

Phrasings are my best guess but the timing is a bit weird so I can't be sure. I think the add2 & add4 chords are obviously where ScienceGuy heard most of the suspended chord sounds but the F quintal chord has it in a more subtle way too.

The interesting thing about the word suspended in this context is that normally a suspension is a type of nonharmonic tone (meaning doesn't belong in the chords) that resolves immediately afterward - for example, a V with a 4-3 suspension resolving to the I. The idea of having an actual chord be suspended didn't really come about until around the 18th or 19th century when composers stopped resolving their suspensions and just left them in the chords. Boards are clearly doing that here as none of these chords, or their suspensions, really resolve properly.

I've never cared much for this song, probably due to the erratic and changing progressions that don't really go anywhere (IMO). But it was interesting to analyze.

Ah, I was hoping you would do Skyliner - thank you. it's a real stunner, one of my all time favorites of theirs and blows Dayvan Cowboy clear out of the water. I've always been intrigued with the circular chord progression that never quite feels settled. Each chord feels like a little plateau - we move up and down and occasionally rest in a moment of balance/harmony before beginning another cycle. It's fascinating. It's a bit like Telephasic Workshop in the sense its like a wheel set in motion and there's a slow build of drama with each rotation. Skyliner's drama is a bit more subtle than Telephasic's rapid-fire kick drums and chopped-up voices - it mostly in those little synth flourishes that pop up periodically, like the burst that we first hear at 1:02 that is basically the audio equivalent of 80s lens flare on a hot day.

To me its one of their most emotional series of chords (along with Sundown & Corsair) and despite its constant shifting/instability it ultimately sounds very hopeful. To me its the most resolutely positive sounding composition of theirs since Zoetrope.

[john fonda]

I love skyliner barring the kick sound, always felt out of place

[Echo the Sun]

Thank you for all the effort you put into this, 15Dreams. I think I speak for the whole community in saying that.