BoC & music theory

Everything related to our favorite Scottish duo.

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Wildfire wrote:
I don't suppose you have enough knowledge of analog synths to know what synth is being used? I've tried the following and can't get the same timbre, even with post processing....

SH101
Korg Monopoly
Juno 60
ARP Odyssey

Also when you have time, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the wonderfully simple but achingly beautiful 'Echus'.

EDIT: That is a fine view, just out of interest where do you live?


Unfortunately I don't have any more information on synths, I've just recently been learning how to use them myself. I'll definitely get to Echus, that shouldn't be too hard. And I live in NW America, there are a lot of great landscapes here :D

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2020k wrote:That reply makes no sense and I can't go back and edit it. I meant are there motifs and theoretical similarities throughout Tomorrow's Harvest that you can spot that are maybe deeper than what we've found so far?

"There's actually more use of subliminals on this record than on any previous album we've done, so we're interested to see what people will pick up on." - Mike


Nothing huge that I've seen so far, I mean a lot of the empty sounds on the record come from the open 5ths discussed in Cold Earth and their quintal formations found in Sundown. But that's just for the musical quality AFAIK...no hidden patterns that I've seen yet. Believe me though, the speculation post is the first place I'll go if I find something :wink:

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What are your thoughts on the palindromic structure of Tomorrow's Harvest? Thanks

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This is a great thread. Even for someone like me who hasn't studied music theory at all. Thanks for taking the time to do this.

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Can you please do From One Source All Things Depend? I'm obsessed with that organ motif and never have been able to figure it out..

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First of all sorry to abandon my own thread, I just got back from a long vacation which was mostly internet free.

Echo the Sun wrote:What are your thoughts on the palindromic structure of Tomorrow's Harvest? Thanks


Chord progression wise I haven't noticed any such structure apart from the fact that most of the chord progressions are cyclical...do you mean thematically?

niceeagle wrote:Can you please do From One Source All Things Depend? I'm obsessed with that organ motif and never have been able to figure it out..


Hey! Thanks for reminding me that this track exists, I didn't get it with my copy of Geogaddi and forgot about it.

Anyway, keeping in mind that it's detuned about 15-20 cents down, the bass starting at about 0:29 goes F# C# E# B A# G# B and then repeats. The organ and synth part is sort of improvisatory, loosely based on the accompanying chords, so if you want to capture the spirit of the song I would drift around in F# major, and hold notes a little longer than the bass so that they alternate between dissonance and consonance. If you really want me to try and transcribe the voices I can make an effort but it's difficult when there are three of them that close together so I couldn't guarantee accuracy.

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15Dreams wrote:First of all sorry to abandon my own thread, I just got back from a long vacation which was mostly internet free.

Echo the Sun wrote:What are your thoughts on the palindromic structure of Tomorrow's Harvest? Thanks


Chord progression wise I haven't noticed any such structure apart from the fact that most of the chord progressions are cyclical...do you mean thematically?



if albums splits in two parts, collapse is a turning point?
Palace Posy

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15Dreams wrote:Chord progression wise I haven't noticed any such structure apart from the fact that most of the chord progressions are cyclical...do you mean thematically?

Anything you've noticed.

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Aquarius next?
Out and about.

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Stavorius wrote:Aquarius next?


Will do though school starts tomorrow so fair warning it might take a week or two!

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Awesome thread! Thanks for doing this. I'd really like to see your take on Jacquard Causeway when you can get around to it.

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chodytaint wrote:Awesome thread! Thanks for doing this. I'd really like to see your take on Jacquard Causeway when you can get around to it.



I'll 2nd that request.

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Wildfire wrote:Also when you have time, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the wonderfully simple but achingly beautiful 'Echus'.


I tried to work out the chords to Echus a while back. Not sure how accurate this is but I think it sounds pretty close. I'm sure 15Dreams can provide better analysis, but it's interesting that it's all major chords (Eb Gb Db Ab). Also, Dayvan Cowboy uses the same exact progression, just in a different key (F# A E B).

Image

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chodytaint wrote:
Wildfire wrote:Also when you have time, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the wonderfully simple but achingly beautiful 'Echus'.


I tried to work out the chords to Echus a while back. Not sure how accurate this is but I think it sounds pretty close. I'm sure 15Dreams can provide better analysis, but it's interesting that it's all major chords (Eb Gb Db Ab). Also, Dayvan Cowboy uses the same exact progression, just in a different key (F# A E B).

Image



Hey thanks man, I'll try this later when I am at my keyboard. :)

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BOCUMA!!!... please n'stuff...

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Okay so I was in the middle of making a giant post about Aquarius and another topic when my wifi dipped and I lost the whole darn thing. Going to do them one at a time now, starting with Aquarius.

The beginning chords are sparse and as far as I can tell only consist of three very watery, modulated, highpass notes per chord:

Image

This would make the progression F#m, D#m7, F#m, Bm. The bass plays this:

Image

During the chorus (the counting part) the pads switch to this:

Image

These would be Bb6/4 (second inversion), F, A6/4, E. The bass changes (at least on the MHtRtC version - interestingly enough it DOESN'T change on the Aquarius single (probably because it's a sample) which is why it sounds so dissonant on that one, glad they made their own version) to this:

Image

The ending chords are these, with the chimes sample appearing on top:

Image

Conclusion: This is a weird song. The intro seems to be in B minor, but the D# minor chord doesn't really agree with that. Good example of BoC's fondness for minor chords moving in minor thirds though. The middle part can't decide whether it should modulate to Bb Major or A Major. The chords there are a nice little plagal progression (IV-I). It ultimately decides on Bb Major for the ending, but decorates each progression. The Gb-Ab-Bb is a bVI-bVII-I cadence, which would be considered linear or planing since the chords move in parallel. The same goes for Bb-Db-Eb but it's a bIII-IV-I cadence instead.

Also I really dig this song, mostly for all those reasons. Plus it tends to weird people out more than any other BoC song (except possibly The Color of the Fire).

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Other topic - awhile back I read this:

Michael: “With this difference: we let hear a shrill tone at the right moment – in our terminology: the magical fifth chord. If you do something the listener doesn’t expect on the crucial moment, his ear will pay extra attention there the next time he listens: this way, you keep music fascinating.”

Link here:
Spoiler: show
http://bocpages.org/wiki/Cross_Out_the_Inappropriate


I always thought Mike was referring to the V or v chord - although BoC do use it on occasion, they generally prefer third-relationship chords like III's and VI's. Even plagal relationships like IV-I show up more than the V chord does. Then after observing something interesting about Alpha and Omega I realized that Mike probably meant the 5th chord of a progression - meaning not the "4-chord progressions" found so commonly in pop music.

Some evidence:

Whitewater's main progression is Eb Bb F C G. Again all the chords have a neat IV-I relationship with each other opposite of what most cascading progressions do, which is have V-I relationships. This creates the circle of fifths, but clearly BoC prefer the circle of fourths. This is understandable as plagal (IV-I) progressions can have a darker, warmer sound that's not as intense as authentic (V-I) progressions. However the 5th chord doesn't sound too unnatural since it is held for two measures, making the song have a 4-2 or 6 feel to it. None of the proceeding songs do this, though.

Alpha & Omega's main progression is G#sus (G# C# D), Gsus, Gm7, F#sus, G#m7. This loops for the whole song. It's an interesting example of chromatic relationships, which aren't very stable, that create a sort of "falling" effect. This is especially notable because the G#m7 subtly moves the progression back up to the G#sus where it started so you keep "falling" forever without feeling like you're "rising" back up the keys.

Slow This Bird Down goes B Gaug (#5 so G B D#) F#6 (F# major first inversion, not an added 6), F#m6, GMaj7. This is a nice spooky major/minor progression that gives off an appropriately eerie vibe.

Julie and Candy has a non-constant progression but generally sticks with Db Eb Db Eb F. All the chords are major, which is a good example of parallel major chords moving in major seconds. For this song, though, the flutesy bits play random notes in F Major so your ear hears the Db chord as a spooky bVI that doesn't really belong. The Eb feels like a natural motion to F, and if the chord were F Minor this would be a normal 2017 IV-V-vi progression heard in pretty much every 'EDM' track. But of course it's not because BoC don't like 'normal' progressions...that's why I love 'em.

The Beach at Redpoint has such a drastic example of this that I'd consider the song to be in 10/4 because it's slow and the chords move relatively quickly to the beat. Now that each measure has 10 beats it's the perfect way to squeeze in G#m G#m Em F#m F#m. Now the trick here is that there are really only three chords in the song, but the way they move the notes around between chords (especially the bass, which jumps an octave for each identical chord) makes it sound like there are more. I think there might be some decorative 7's in the chords which accomplish the same effect. In this way, BoC fool us into believing that they're playing the 5-chord game...even when they're technically not.

Fascinating stuff...and I'm sure I missed a ton of songs so let me know if you think you've heard a 5th chord somewhere in one!

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Also forgot to mention in both those posts - most of the songs are detuned or tuned higher than A440 so if any of the chords sound awful when played over the song try retuning your synths. This also goes for any future posts I make so I don't have to keep saying it.

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Yo 15Dreams, sorry to be a pain in the ass, but would you be able to produce notation for Sundown too? I'd love to try and play but am struggling from your chord description. No worries if you don't have time!

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This is pretty cool, even though parts are slightly above my head.
Do you think BoC even work with any of this in mind or just make what sounds good to them?
I'd love/be really interested to see an analysation of some of my music as i'm in the latter camp where I just play what I think.
You could feel the bullshit

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