2016 US Presidential Elections

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Sherbet Head
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jcnporter wrote:
arvy wrote:people hate each other. they are just trying to mask it with political, national, religious or any other ideas. it's in our nature.


Not really. People who come face to face with each other every day get along, in general, no matter what their background, religion, sexuality etc.
It's when people get behind a screen, or the wheel of a car, or are separated in some way, or feel separated due to media propaganda, they get all brave and take their own frustrations out on 'the other'.


i was waching some videos from trump rally lately and noticed thet, people just standing in front of each other, yelling different things and honestly i dont hear any clear politicial reason for what they are standing for... but the hate in their eyes... the hate is real man..
it doesn't matter for what you are standing for any ideology is just a pretext to jump in and fight fot the right thing

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jcnporter wrote:
arvy wrote:people hate each other. they are just trying to mask it with political, national, religious or any other ideas. it's in our nature.


Not really. People who come face to face with each other every day get along, in general, no matter what their background, religion, sexuality etc.
It's when people get behind a screen, or the wheel of a car, or are separated in some way, or feel separated due to media propaganda, they get all brave and take their own frustrations out on 'the other'.

I agree people have multiple public personas. But it's hard to tell which is the closest to who they are inside. I know I sometimes say things I don't mean online out of frustration, but I also withhold my opinions very often when interacting with strangers in real life. That's just me, of course.

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jcnporter wrote:Behind the hysterical opinion pieces, the government spin and the bullshit around Trump and Brexit, a familiar, predictable and depressing story is unfolding.
Thank fuck there are still some decent journalists around. Essential reading.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/02/corporate-dark-money-power-atlantic-lobbyists-brexit


jcnporter wrote:There's been a bit of a discussion of the left's part in the rise of Trump. This analysis, by a left-winger, seems pretty accurate to me -

http://www.zwilo.com/who-predicted-the-rise-of-the-populists-populism-richard-rorty/

Very interesting articles, jcn. And scary. This is all so terrifyingly well-planned. The collusion. The plays. The fronts. Why all this now?

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Echo the Sun wrote:
jcnporter wrote:
arvy wrote:people hate each other. they are just trying to mask it with political, national, religious or any other ideas. it's in our nature.


Not really. People who come face to face with each other every day get along, in general, no matter what their background, religion, sexuality etc.
It's when people get behind a screen, or the wheel of a car, or are separated in some way, or feel separated due to media propaganda, they get all brave and take their own frustrations out on 'the other'.

I agree people have multiple public personas. But it's hard to tell which is the closest to who they are inside. I know I sometimes say things I don't mean online out of frustration, but I also withhold my opinions very often when interacting with strangers in real life. That's just me, of course.


I'm not sure if it really matters who they are inside, though. Everyone has thoughts and opinions that they would never share, even among friends.
There seems to be a disturbing desire among many people these days to thought police others, to analyse what they say or do to get at some inner truth about them, to 'call them out'. It's pointless and reductive.
I would say most people have some thoughts, opinions and beliefs that many of a liberal or conservative bent would find very distasteful - who cares, though, unless they act on them?
Our social selves are regulated by the presence of other humans. In many ways that is our 'real' selves and how we should be judged.
The problems emerge when we are in some way separate, either physically, or through a process of dehumanisation and we don't recognise the effect of that separation on our personalities. Also when we feel emboldened among 'like-minded' people. This is why I think the fast rise of social media, in particular, can be so toxic.

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Echo the Sun wrote:
jcnporter wrote:Behind the hysterical opinion pieces, the government spin and the bullshit around Trump and Brexit, a familiar, predictable and depressing story is unfolding.
Thank fuck there are still some decent journalists around. Essential reading.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/02/corporate-dark-money-power-atlantic-lobbyists-brexit


jcnporter wrote:There's been a bit of a discussion of the left's part in the rise of Trump. This analysis, by a left-winger, seems pretty accurate to me -

http://www.zwilo.com/who-predicted-the-rise-of-the-populists-populism-richard-rorty/

Very interesting articles, jcn. And scary. This is all so terrifyingly well-planned. The collusion. The plays. The fronts. Why all this now?


I think it's just another type of elite trying to establish itself, using populism to achieve it, timing their push for when the tide seems to be in their direction - the term 'alt-right' is very appropriate - they're just an alternative right-wing power structure.
In a way it's nothing new, in that the goal is power and what is best for ordinary people has nothing to do with it.
I think this is why the left have been wrong to focus on 'identity' issues - while progress on a single issue, for a section of the population, is undoubtedly progress, it can all too easily be used to distract from the fact that fundamental and structural inequalities remain for everyone - the structures that affect everyone are where the real power lies.
For me the most important common theme through history is that all wars, all conflicts, are the result of the disagreements of a very, very small amount of people, who are then able to harness power through persuading the masses that they have their best interests at heart.
We need to better at spotting these people and ignoring them - not just politicians, but religions, corporations, marketing, advertising. Until we do that we can't really claim to have truly progressed, in my opinion.

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jcnporter wrote:
Echo the Sun wrote:
jcnporter wrote:Not really. People who come face to face with each other every day get along, in general, no matter what their background, religion, sexuality etc.
It's when people get behind a screen, or the wheel of a car, or are separated in some way, or feel separated due to media propaganda, they get all brave and take their own frustrations out on 'the other'.

I agree people have multiple public personas. But it's hard to tell which is the closest to who they are inside. I know I sometimes say things I don't mean online out of frustration, but I also withhold my opinions very often when interacting with strangers in real life. That's just me, of course.


I'm not sure if it really matters who they are inside, though. Everyone has thoughts and opinions that they would never share, even among friends.
There seems to be a disturbing desire among many people these days to thought police others, to analyse what they say or do to get at some inner truth about them, to 'call them out'. It's pointless and reductive.
I would say most people have some thoughts, opinions and beliefs that many of a liberal or conservative bent would find very distasteful - who cares, though, unless they act on them?
Our social selves are regulated by the presence of other humans. In many ways that is our 'real' selves and how we should be judged.
The problems emerge when we are in some way separate, either physically, or through a process of dehumanisation and we don't recognise the effect of that separation on our personalities. Also when we feel emboldened among 'like-minded' people. This is why I think the fast rise of social media, in particular, can be so toxic.

I certainly agree that it's usually not very pragmatic to probe and try to find out the extent to which someone's socially regulated self mirrors what's inside because such inquiries very rarely prove fruitful. However, the dissonance I feel between the personas of people online and those I encounnter in real life disturbs me, and that feeling makes me desire to be able to "get at [their] inner truth[s]." I wouldn't call that desire "disturbing." I think it's quite natural to want to feel like those you interact with are the real deal. Now, full-on "thought-policing" is a another matter altogether.

Also, social regulation can cause the same feeling of "separateness" that the online world can. I often feel everyone is hiding behind a veneer of (what they think is) socially acceptable behaviour. Within this world, trust becomes a big issue, and one fears to express his or her thoughts and feelings openly and must seek out like-minded people in order to obtain a sense of community. Within these groups dangerous opinions go unchallenged and start to spread and steel due to phenomena like groupthink.

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Credit where credit is due, that 77 minute standup routine it gave yesterday was gold. Bigly.
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Slow down...

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Eagle Minded
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Mexicola wrote:Credit where credit is due, that 77 minute standup routine it gave yesterday was gold. Bigly.

lol. i wish i could be more lighthearted about all this, too, but watching the news often gets me down. now i try to avoid it. i need a hug, mexi. fly up to canada and give me one, please :O

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I think we ALL need a laugh and a hug at the moment pal. Gallows humour perhaps, but I can't let the rise of the Alt-right, Nu-Nazis, White Supremacy Lite, or whatever they like to be called this week (how about 'I Can't Believe It's Not Fascism'?) stop me poking fun at their ludicrous figurehead. The good will out.
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Slow down...

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HELP.

I don't know what this country elected, but it's horrible and needs to leave.
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747Music wrote:dont go up there!!! the music is down by the truck!

Forest_Opal wrote:Mexicolas a spooky person.

Josh wrote:Sometimes I would pay money for 1:46 of silence.

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Dayvan Cowboy
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I'm amazed at how it keeps getting worse and yet somehow he's still there. :(

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And there it is. The Nazi sympathising elephant in the room. When Pence looks moderate and dignified by comparison, you know you have problems.
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Slow down...

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Eagle Minded
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At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if Trump stayed in office even after committing murder on live TV.

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