The Anxiety Thread

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Dayvan Cowboy
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Ehh no, that's fine, none of them were heavy or anything, I was just left on them for a long-ass time. (Just SSRIs for most of it.) So the weaning wasn't fun, but it was doable once the brain zaps and stuff subsided, way easier than if I'd been on stronger stuff. I know withdrawal from some of that stuff is terrible.

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Sherbet Head
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Saw some stories in the news recently about a strong link between anxiety and low levels of good bacteria in the gut.

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Any links chap?
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Happy Cycler
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I made the mistake again of involving my family in something I was doing by asking a simple request with specific, explicit instructions. Situation of course was taken to extremes and turns to shit.

Not a single goddamned thing seems to be going right this year.
WILL PRODUCE/MASTER YOUR [LP/EP et al] FOR FREE/CREDIT ONLY. PLEASE PM IF YOU ARE INTERESTED!
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Sherbet Head
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Mexicola wrote:Any links chap?


Aye -

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/how-gut-bacteria-may-affect-anxiety

Although probiotic supplements might not be an answer -

https://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2017/08/27/science-is-showing-how-gut-bacteria-affect-the-brain-but-dont-bother-taking-probiotics-yet/#7887b47535a5

Although I've been hearing more and more about the connections between gut health and other health issues and I've heard positive anecdotal stuff about probiotic supplements and/or prebiotic foods, so might be worth a try, especially after taking antibiotics.

I think I've mentioned on here before about the effect of diet on mental as well as physical health.
In the past I've self-diagnosed quite a few of the symptoms of OCD and anxiety in myself, albeit mild although detrimental, but with the potential I've felt, to spiral into something more serious. I've purposely never been to a doctor or sought medication for it, so investigated other angles.
Diet, specifically a paleo-style diet in my case, for me has definitely been one of the things that has 'kept a lid on it' (with many other positive side effects - weight loss, energy) along with consciously monitoring/attempting to correct my thought processes - a kind of CBT or mindfulness, I suppose.
It's something often dismissed or overlooked, but I would recommend to anyone to consider what they eat and drink when trying to address any of their physical or mental health issues, though avoid fad diets. Why not? There's virtually no downsides. For me, it has been a huge positive.

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Cheers. I don't think there's a panacea but you can't have too many options with this stuff.

Anyhoo, in the pub. That works ;-)
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Dayvan Cowboy
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I'm having a pretty bad time.

I don't want to stop taking codeine because in combination with a certain mood stabilizer, a 200mg daily dose rids me entirely of (undisclosed condition).

The Doc is reducing me lower than I can go with it still having a positive effect on my mental health, using Codeine for mental disorders is so far off label that I doubt anyone would prescribe it for such a thing but even my family are behind me on this as they have seen the positive transformation I have made as a result of being on medication that is effective.

What do I do.

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If you don't trust it you could always get a second opinion. Codeine is not a mood stabalizer, though I think you've mentioned use of opiates in other threads. Maybe your doctor wants to catch two birds with one stone?
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Dayvan Cowboy
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Cupz wrote:If you don't trust it you could always get a second opinion. Codeine is not a mood stabalizer, though I think you've mentioned use of opiates in other threads. Maybe your doctor wants to catch two birds with one stone?


I noticed that in contrast to Morphine and other opiates, even long after tolerance has developed to all other effects. Codeine genuinely does have a stabilizing effect on my mood through just taking the same dosage each day without feeling the need to increase the dosage to get the same effects (that rules out it just being the analgesia) and I've been looking into research done by specialists that says the same for its experimental treatment of (it) on small groups of patients in the US.

I was a real mess before and as the dosage gets lower on my prescription I feel that coming back again which is quite scary.

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Valotonin wrote:
I noticed that in contrast to Morphine and other opiates, even long after tolerance has developed to all other effects. Codeine genuinely does have a stabilizing effect on my mood through just taking the same dosage each day without feeling the need to increase the dosage to get the same effects (that rules out it just being the analgesia) and I've been looking into research done by specialists that says the same for its experimental treatment of (it) on small groups of patients in the US.

I was a real mess before and as the dosage gets lower on my prescription I feel that coming back again which is quite scary.


I know what you're going through, opiates have a way of encapsulating your happiness and wellbeing, to be without them is very scary when you're addicted.

I'll tell ya that opiates will convince your brain that you need them to be happy,i am a former abuser and i remember telling myself "what's the big deal if i take this stuff for the rest of my life" I was convinced that it was helping me.

For a year or 2 the opiates may very well help you,however,you will find in time it won't ...trust me.

You won't be able to keep codeine working for you and will eventually find something stronger that will do the same trick but better.

Further more if you just stop(cold turkey)..you're going to be in a really bad way..to the point of contemplating suicide.

If you keep this up be prepared to live your life with a ball and chain, what once was a boost will be regulated to something you need just to get out of bed.

My friend if all your taking is codeine then get out now for if you stay on this path you might never have the strength or support to walk away for a long time.(you don't want to hit rock bottom)

Whatever opiates give you now they will take away in time......

The first time to run out completely of your opiates and you go into withdrawal and somebody offers you a more powerful opiate of any kind you are 1000000% going to take it, that's how it starts.

Your never ending supply is a castle made of sand,don't think that your codeine will always be there because it won't.

Get off this ride whilst you can.

From the bottom of my heart,head my warning, don't find out how right i am.

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Actually had a lump in my throat reading that TheFadeBeta.
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Dayvan Cowboy
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I greatly appreciate your input and kind words.

Didn't want this to be associated with my Twoism persona but its worth saying.
I got in with the wrong crowd when I was about eighteen and was an intravenous diamorphine user for a while and that shite really is the devil in disguise. It's been about three years with the Codeine now, originally it was me trying to take all of my other multi-drug/ hard drug issues and compound them into something smaller and more manageable but there was always something different about it for my condition personally. I didn't find myself wanting to, and still don't want to increase dosage to achieve analgesia and have actually happily lowered my dosage gradually to a point where I still feel the benefit from its Kappa receptor agonism regardless of the fact that Mu receptor tolerance has been totally gained for around two years now. I genuinely know the feeling of one's own mind lying to them and doing various somersaults to convince them that their drug of choice is doing them well, but I also know through actions and through the fact that it stopped my hospital visits for psychotic episodes/ attempts on my life in their tracks combined with actually making me feel like a human being that can be productive again that there is something in stark contrast about this to harder, softer, any class of medication both prescription or non-prescription that I have taken to remedy the issue.

In a state of withdrawal luckily there is always a backup plan if the shit really does hit the fan, there are multiple over the counter remedies containing codeine and with some fairly basic chemistry one can remove all of the paracetamol (I in no way endorse that method as it has and does kill people who aren't at least moderately familiar with chemistry) and I have had a blood test to show that less than a trace of paracetamol was present in my body after doing so. That isn't to say I haven't gone through a couple of days of hard withdrawal on multiple occasions from both the codeine and back when I was using the H, but even if I where offered something harder in that state I would refuse and remedy the withdrawal.

Am I addicted? Yes.
Am I addicted to the analgesia? No
Is it better than psychosis, regular hospital visits for potentially life-threatening side effects of that and watching as everything spirals out of control and my friends and some loved ones realise that I am too much of a basket case to interact with? Yes.
For my personal set of symptoms it may well have saved my life.

I am very kind to my body these days. I don't drink a drop, I am cutting down on cigarettes and I watch what I eat.
Aside from the fact it is a ball and chain, you where 100% right about that, it is a much lighter one than the one I had a few years ago and unlike literally every other opitate, codeine does absolutely no damage to the body when used on a daily basis.

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I know all about CWE's and synthesis, even worse when you learn how to make opiates from raw materials.

I got myself into deep trouble making a much more powerful opiate than codeine.(I was stupid)

There is no consistent long term degree of efficacy from opiates, anybody will tell you that and you already know this.

You know the answer in your heart, The question is, do you listen to your heart or the drug.

Don't eliminate your chance at having that choice.

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Dayvan Cowboy
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TheFadeBeta wrote:I know all about CWE's and synthesis, even worse when you learn how to make opiates from raw materials.

I got myself into deep trouble making a much more powerful opiate than codeine.(I was stupid)

There is no consistent long term degree of efficacy from opiates, anybody will tell you that and you already know this.

You know the answer in your heart, The question is, do you listen to your heart or the drug.

Don't eliminate your chance at having that choice.


That's some pretty complex chemistry you did there.

I've done the whole taking Loperamide (Immodium) alongside black pepper and quinine so that it is able to cross the blood-brain barrier and CWE but that is about the extent of my comfort zone (I don't do either anymore). Hearing the story of a man who tried to synthesize Hydromorphone and ended up creating a compound that literally ate away at his dopamine receptors leaving him unable to feel a sense of reward in anything, found dead after overdosing on cocaine a few months later in an attempt to get some dopamine back in his system put me off ever considering synthesis.

You are right, there is only one instance in which opiate use has been shown to be effective as a long-term treatment. And as the years go by with me still feeling a sense of normality and stability that I never had before, without that effect ever diminishing with tolerance, I start to feel like the fact that almost a decade of having doctors prescribing me medicine after medicine for my condition to no avail might be an indicator.

Do I have an endorphin deficiency?
It should have stopped working a very long time ago by now. It hasn't stopped working and I haven't ever had to increase the dosage.

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Dayvan Cowboy
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The extents I will go to to justify this are astounding, aren't they?

Don't worry, I am always aware that I am lying to myself and to others but I let it get off the leash a bit sometimes.

I re-read that last bit and had a bit of a laugh at it though.
Will go as far as to suggest I have an endorphin deficiency to try to reason with myself about it.
That's pretty funny, one has to admit.

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Valotonin wrote:The extents I will go to to justify this are astounding, aren't they?

Don't worry, I am always aware that I am lying to myself and to others but I let it get off the leash a bit sometimes.

I re-read that last bit and had a bit of a laugh at it though.
Will go as far as to suggest I have an endorphin deficiency to try to reason with myself about it.
That's pretty funny, one has to admit.


In the end being an addict isn't a clever long term life solution.

You are just afraid to be yourself, all that (i'm my own best Doctor bs) is guilt cloaked in pseudoscience.

I thought that i was so smart but what i didn't grasp was why i went to such great lengths to explain my choice of being an addict.

I was just terrified to stop, what I've come to realize is that you just have too deal with the discomfort of life to get good at it.

It's never going to work (the idea that you absolutely need opiates as cushioning ) to deal with life's bumpy roads.

You're just going to have to find a way to deal with yourself, the version of you that doesn't need drugs won't go to great lengths to explain himself.

The person you really are wants to come back(don't leave him behind) it's the drug that needs sited papers from dusty medical studies....not you.

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Dayvan Cowboy
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If addiction was my primary problem, I would 100% agree with you.

The person I am without medication is one that likely wouldn't live very long unfortunately and I say that without the slightest exaggeration or hyperbole.

Codeine probably isn't the solution and definitely isn't a permanent solution to that, but not having it (Until a better medical solution can be found) will lead to other more dangerous things as it always does. Like I said, it was a way of taking all of my other issues and compounding them into a small mild-opiate habit rather than an addiction to Heroin and huffing computer cleaner to try and escape from the fact that I am a seriously unwell person when unmedicated. I had a pretty massive psychotic episode at age 14 and since then, when I am not in some way dulling my senses, I am pretty prone to psychotic episodes in which I am a serious risk to myself. Its been so long since I have felt that way that I couldn't begin to understand why I kept trying to off myself or engaged in using drugs that where effectively a slower way of ending it and I want to keep it that way.

I would rather be addicted to mild opiates than be a full-on junkie or be dead which is the rather unusual situation I find myself in.

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Dayvan Cowboy
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Anyway, I'd rather not talk about it anymore if that is cool with you. I've already gone into far more detail than I should have done.

I really appreciate your advice though, thank you for your understanding and empathy regarding the situation.

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Your the expert,you understand yourself better than anyone else so I can't tell you what you should do and i won't do that.

I agree that what you're doing is better then banging H or sniffing component cleaner.

I understand what having fucked up brain can do to you...

I have Manic Depression and i used opiates to cope with the ups and downs.

Developing techniques to deal with it is hard and requires help and determination, I understand that i'm never going to be "normal" (whatever that is).

I still have my bad days and sometimes i say and do things that are downright embarrassing , i can forgive myself for that.

I think the real crux of your issue is depression.

I'm a firm believer that talking drugs to remedy depression will not offer you the critical thinking skills needed to manage and find creative ways to make yourself better.(or just the best you can do)

You set this impossible stage for yourself ... and i quote "I would rather be addicted to mild opiates than be a full-on junkie or be dead" ....Is that it my friend?...

Is this the end of the fight for you? Seems to me that you have improved your life from what it was.

I see growth.Don't you?

I'd say you should be proud of your progress.

You can be more creative than this clever cage you've made.

You have come this far, what is stopping you from seeking out fresh and interesting ways of coping with what's bothering you?

Why not go just a little bit further?

I'm better off challenging my undesirable feelings/thoughts then accepting them as fact .

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Valotonin wrote:Anyway, I'd rather not talk about it anymore if that is cool with you. I've already gone into far more detail than I should have done.

I really appreciate your advice though, thank you for your understanding and empathy regarding the situation.


I respect that. :wink:

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