Elon Musk/ Mark Zuckerberg/ Google X

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Dayvan Cowboy
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The three mentioned in this title share a common denominator. The belief that humanity can only be 'saved' through being physically augmented and combined with artificial intelligence and machinery. They wish to impose this on the rest of the world believing that, because they claim it will save humanity, that it is their right to impose it upon people without their consent.
And yes, it will come to that extreme set of circumstances.

Theoretical example: A new micro device is created that is implanted under the skin that monitors heart rate and takes regular blood samples to check for infections and deficiencies. This device also relays this information through microwaves to a central hub. It always begins with the claim that it will somehow help humanity. Soon it is claimed in the developed world that not allowing doctors to place this device in your child's muscle tissue at birth is cruel and it is legislated as not allowing it would be 'diminishing their quality of life and making them more prone to disease'. It is no longer an option and there is regular propaganda over the television telling of the stupidity and selfishness of the 'conspiracy theorists' who do not want their children augmented with computer chips. Gradually over the course of the following few years these devices are regularly updated 'booster chips' are applied at surgeries. These collect evermore information about the host and is able to track them via GPS, however, it is claimed that the latter is to allow your other devices to help you with mapping and so that if someone is missing they can easily be found by their relatives. Several suspicious but full scale and devastating attacks happen on your capital city. They claim it is important to find these people before they have the opportunity to attack again and that only through 'responsible' chip monitoring can they protect the people from themselves. You now have a government that can hear you, see you, track you and has a whole host of information about you fed to them in real time and, without doing yourself permanent injury with a sharp kitchen utensil, this is completely mandatory and 'for your own protection'.

Wearable technology leads to sub-dermal technology, it is a gradual tiptoe so that the changes however vast they would be in retrospect, would feel like small barely noticeable increments to those subject to them. It started on your desk, it made its way into your hands, it became attached to your wrist, it became stuck to your skin, it will live under your skin.

Part II
Google X, Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg have identical agendas. 1 is to surround the entire planet with microwave frequencies (Project loom by GX, Zuckerberg's internet plane and Elon Musk's internet satelites) so that there is literally nowhere on the face of the earth that one can be in solitude from them. Rats exposed to these frequencies undergo certain elements of their brain tissue breaking down slowly and notable, measurable, hormonal differences to those that aren't. What is the claim? The gradual attempt to make internet access sound like a basic human right, putting it right next to food and water in a list of things that humans allegedly need. They claim it is their dream to bring the internet to 'underprivileged people in remote areas' and that the only solution to this is to have the planet constantly engulfed in the same frequency range you use to reheat food. This alone would be considered a coincidence until you realise that Google X, Mark Zuckerberg and Elon musk all speak of exactly the same goals in other areas. They speak of a future in which humans are no longer human and how we can 'free ourselves' through machine augmentation. They all speak of augmenting the human mind with technology so that one's mind can be directly attached to the internet. Seeing as many government agencies already have access to your private conversations on Facebook and by Gmail, do you trust them with your thoughts?

Do you trust them to have access to the very last fundamental freedom that humanity has? Remember that it is very easy to legislate against someone holding a 'hateful' opinion. In Germany one is sent to jail for wanting to bring up questions related to the Holocaust, for wanting clarification on a historical fact. It is a crime to hold an alternative opinion. So what would stop them scanning the mind for said opinions? What would stop them expanding the range of what is considered a hateful opinion. If you spent more than two seconds looking at the behind of a person you are attracted to on your public transport system, they could and will use that against you. It would all be there for them to see. That could be sexual harassment. Presenting your 'malicious' memories and retinal output to the court to prove your guilt. You thought about what it might be like to touch them, and they will know that you thought about it. Mandatory castration and hormone therapy and a 'correctional' chip that punishes you for ever having such vulgar thoughts again and alerts authorities. A terrorist attack happens and you notice some strange anomalies and unlikelihoods, you begin to ponder who would have the most to gain out of staging such an event. A jury finds you guilty of directly downplaying the suffering of the victims through your extremely deranged thoughts, correctional chip and two years incarceration.

And I think to myself,
What a wonderful world

Telepath
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This all sounds very interesting, but I would suggest adding reliable sources to back-up you claims.

Dayvan Cowboy
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Google X balloon powered internet:
https://x.company/loon/
Elon musk Satelite internet:
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/04/spacex-i ... -musk.html
Zuckerberg's internet solar planes:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ght-aquila

Zuckerberg's Internet brain augmentation:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2 ... echnology/
Elon Musk's Internet brain augmentation:
http://www.newsweek.com/elon-musk-neura ... ace-575078

Google X are still focusing on wearable internet such as glasses and contact lenses as opposed to direct neural links but 5.5/6 in common is no coincidence and half of Google X's projects aren't disclosed to the public. I would put money on one of them being a neural internet interface.

This is a shared agenda. If one fails, the other two will attempt to make it a reality. With all of these large corporations on exactly the same page they are turning it into an inevitability.

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Eagle Minded
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Perhaps paying taxes would be a good start!

Dayvan Cowboy
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Oh and to back up my statement about the microwave spectrum used in WiFi having adverse effects on rodents and damaging DNA/RNA
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25775055
(.gov website, legitimate)

WiFi/ cellular frequencies directly damaging sperm of rodents tested which leads to a real potential for birth defects in their young
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4503846/

Why is it a conspiracy theory when it is all here on .gov websites and the radiation they are being exposed to matches that of WiFi exactly (2.4ghz). Anything above the midrange of UHF should be considered a dangerous form of radiation except for the gap where visible light lies between microwaves and literal alpha and gamma radioactivity.

Telepath
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Let's just hope the energy and AGI problem will be solved quickly. Then there's no need for this greedy brave-new-world picture. :)

Dayvan Cowboy
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You are absolutely right !

There are two things that need to be put in place to prevent these (what seems like) instabilities.

1: Begin using different frequencies that are tested and proven as safe to living tissue to relay wireless information.
2: Understand on a global level that every human being has a right to be human and that no sub-dermal or inbuilt devices will ever become compulsory. Also, that every human has a right to choose not to use digital technology.

Every process should have a paper backup and alternative for instance applying for something through the work and pensions department or for storing medical records. Our National Health Service was recently rather seriously affected by a hack on the computer systems and the reason it was affected so badly is that there was no analogue replacement ready to step in. One should always assume that anything that uses the internet is vulnerable and one can't use it for something as serious as a health service without a paper backup.

Anyway, back on topic. The most important thing is that the issue of wireless radiation's effect on human tissue isn't ridiculed as a conspiracy theory any more because a solution will never be found if it continues this way. Something tells me that the idea that something as basic and obviously verifiable as this being associated with other really quite insane unverifiable theories is that it is a way of psychologically forcing people to categorize it as something untrue by comparing it and classing it similarly as things that genuinely are untrue

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I agree, but you're sorta preaching to the choir :O What can we do about it?

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Dayvan Cowboy
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On the specific thing of microwave safety, I've had a go at tracking down the actual paper that you cite there, rather than just the abstract, but can't get hold of it. So I'm unable to tell, for example, what strength of radio transmissions the rats were being exposed to, the abstract doesn't mention. We do know, though, that as you get further away from a radio source, the measured strength falls of in accordance with the inverse square law - however powerful your antennas are, it depends on how far away from it you are how much of a dose you're gonna get. Right up close, a huge amount; at ground level, much much less. Depending on what their experimental setup was, and depending on what strength any broadcast antenna is, makes a huge difference on any health issues coming from that, and that's all I'm going to really say about that.

What I find, personally, more interesting is the thing you go into with the sociological side, because I completely agree, one thing you see a LOT of in tech entrepeneurs is the "utopian" viewpoint of how they see their inventions being used. Some of this is (I'm pretty sure) CEOs being good CEOs and only talking about the upsides, but a lot of them genuinely don't seem to see the ways that things can be abused. Such as, anything to do with big data having access to your entire history for "ease of search", your medical records being uploaded and aggregated to provide a huge dataset of medical research, always on GPS in phones so that you can get contextual information about where you are... and so on... these are all things that are very easy to abuse. Facebook is an absolute goldmine of useful information about people and their beliefs and personal networks, Google Glass was exploitable as hell... it goes on. We are already seeing people compelled to turn over social media passwords on border crossings and applying for jobs, to NOT have a social media presence is already viewed by some to be a suspicion worthy thing in and of itself.

That said, I'm reasonably sure that in the main Musk's heart's in the right place, he's doing a lot of stuff that someone ought to be tackling what with his environmental stuff, but even his stuff that's on the face of it relatively benign has human cost to it. Replacing petrol cars with electric is great for the environment, and petrochemical jobs are pretty easily mutable into renewable energy jobs on the whole. But the dude wants to build self-driving trucks, for cheaper, more efficient road freight, which is great, but that's going to make a whole bunch of truck drivers redundant, and society needs to do something to deal with that.

Nor am I against transhumanism, I don't believe the body is a temple and there's no gold standard of purity. If you can tweak yourself to improve your quality of life, then whatever. If you're resigned to carrying round a mobile phone wherever you go anyway, then that's a bunch of extra-human capabilities that you have right there, and whether that takes place above or below the surface of your skin is a fairly arbitrary barrier for me. The problem comes with how society treats you if you decide one way or another. Right now, it'd freak a lot of people out and I'd say "let people be how they want, none of your business". If it swung the other way, I'd be saying the same thing. It's like how a higher percentage of old folk aren't by and large online and the world is slowly rebalancing to doing everything online from paying bills to buying licenses for this and that, and I don't agree with the sentiment of "well, tough, this is how we do things today", I think you need to give people a choice. It's fine if someone wants to cut themselves off from the world and live off the grid in a hut with no technology or what have you, I don't think deciding to live off the grid should neccessitate a reaction from the rest of society that compels someone to go to such extremes to achieve it.

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I agree. Musk and Zuckerberg just come across as passionate tech-geeks. Probably just being ignorant about any danger their tech might induce. The biggest problem here might be that tech is like 10 years ahead of politics and new tech is adapted pretty much instantly, without any real thought about the bad things that could happen. All these nerdy millionaires have the power to radically change the world, for good or for bad and all it takes is a few slip-ups. We only fill up the well after our cattle has fallen in.

Also, hook me up for trans-humanism if it's licensed under GPL.

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What was ever wrong with improving our lives through trial and error with finding the medicinal properties of plants? I've just cured an infection that I had been treated with synthetic antibiotics three times (only for it to get worse) before. It turned out that raw garlic contains an antibiotic known as allicin. The only antibiotic in the world capable of treating MRSA. It has adapted to just about every biological agent to the extent that bacteria can never become resistant to it. It breaks down within 20mins of being separated from the garlic though so that is why they still let people suffer with MRSA and give them ineffective antibiotics for other ailments. It wouldn't seem 'right' them extracting the liquid from garlic there in A&E because it would make everyone know that the pharmaceutical industry has failed with antibiotics. It would make people realise that we aren't more powerful or more knowledgeable than the world we inhabit. We can't even stabilize garlic juice.

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Apologies if I've mentioned that before. My longer term memory is a bit shot sometimes.

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But that is just relative to people that are so keen to be augmented with machinery, we still have the full extent of the earth to discover first. Literally everything we need to live full and healthy lives is provided for us

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Dayvan Cowboy
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Don't worry, everyone on this forum right now will be long dead by the time they develop batteries small enough to be implantable that can run a GPS for any length of time. Also, where are Mark and Elon (and everyone else in on it) hiding from this "planet of microwaves" they're creating?

Dayvan Cowboy
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zeitgeist wrote: Also, where are Mark and Elon (and everyone else in on it) hiding from this "planet of microwaves" they're creating?

Well, Elon wants to go to mars after ruining this planet.

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Dayvan Cowboy
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Valid points being made about the further potential of erosion of privacy, although for me the main points touched on here are -

- A few individuals, elected by no-one, setting future directions. Just a further development of the trend of corporate rule usurping the rule of democratically accountable governments.
- There's unimaginably huge amounts of cash (essentially created by the bailouts 10 years ago) swilling around in the pockets of venture capitalists, banks, corporations, while governments declare themselves 'broke' and needing to enforce austerity. A massive transfer of wealth and power from public to the private sector - as a world, overall we've never been richer.
- The usual response to concerns about corporate power is 'don't buy their products', however, many of these people have so much cash, or access to it, that they don't really care, or are creating monopolies - e.g. Google, Uber etc.
- A lot of tech moguls are big Ayn Rand fans and appear to have some extremely dubious views about the 'use' of much of the human race.
- This is all going on essentially unnoticed and/or unchallenged by traditional media and politics.

I've no interest in conspiracy theories - as far as I'm aware, none of the above points are particularly controversial.
Last edited by jcnporter on Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Dayvan Cowboy
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zeitgeist wrote:Don't worry, everyone on this forum right now will be long dead by the time they develop batteries small enough to be implantable that can run a GPS for any length of time. Also, where are Mark and Elon (and everyone else in on it) hiding from this "planet of microwaves" they're creating?


Many on this forum have kids, though.
And -

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11160588/Mark-Zuckerberg-buys-part-of-Hawaii-for-100-million.html

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jan/29/silicon-valley-new-zealand-apocalypse-escape

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Dayvan Cowboy
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Mexicola wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jul/17/elon-musk-regulation-ai-combat-existential-threat-tesla-spacex-ceo?CMP=fb_gu


That strikes Elon from the list imo.
I was originally focused on Zuckerberg and Google X but later found that some of his intentions where scarily similar. It is strange that these words are coming from a man who is desperately wanting to push self-driving vehicles though. I think this, combined with some of his other statements clears him from my mental axis of evil in terms of using technology as a means to control people's behavior. Google X are incredibly fishy.

When I buy a car at some point in the next 2-3 years will it even be possible for me to buy something that is a purely mechanical machine?

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