BoC & music theory

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New Seed
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15Dreams wrote:Response to Kid for Today:

(Once again this whole thing is tuned between G and Ab so I'm choosing to write in G)

The opening chords (and the only chords) are Gm, Amadd4 (A, C, and D), Em7, and Bm played on multiple layers of synth I believe. The keyboard melody starting at 1:10 is as follows:

Image

The keyboard melody focused in the left channel beginning at 1:55 is as follows:

Image

The keyboard melody at 5:05 plays these notes, I haven't bothered writing out the rhythm accurately because it's too offbeat but if anyone wants it I can:

http://i.imgur.com/tvZetqd.png

The synth at the end is the same melody more or less from 1:55 but slower.

This song is a bit more straightforward. While technically all of the chords of minor, the Em7 contains the notes found in a G Major triad (G, B, and D) so our minds kind of hear a Picardy 3rd from Gm to G Major even though E is the root. If I had to pick a key I suppose it would be G Minor but then again none of the following chords are found in the regular G Minor key. The Em7 is probably the most unusual one as it's a minor sharp vi; the Bm following it sounds less unexpected because of the Em7. The minor third/major sixth relationship between Gm and Em7 also appears in a few other BoC songs like EYDIAB (Cm7/Am7) and Sunshine Recorder (Em/Gm). This juxtaposition of minor chords is particularly interesting since the third of G minor (Bb) has to be raised to a B natural to get to E minor, giving it a haunting tonal quality that you can also hear in EYDIAB and Sunshine Recorder.



One of my absolute favourite tracks. Thank you so much for this!

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chodytaint wrote:
Wildfire wrote:Also when you have time, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the wonderfully simple but achingly beautiful 'Echus'.


I tried to work out the chords to Echus a while back. Not sure how accurate this is but I think it sounds pretty close. I'm sure 15Dreams can provide better analysis, but it's interesting that it's all major chords (Eb Gb Db Ab). Also, Dayvan Cowboy uses the same exact progression, just in a different key (F# A E B).

Image


I tried recreating it with my Minilogue. Sounds solid if I may say so myself https://clyp.it/0ws0ezse
Out and about.

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Big thanks to all the contributors on this thread,this is exactly what i was looking for.

Plenty of stuff for me to try,should keep me going for quite a while.

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I remember reading in a few interviews that some samples are slowed down intentionally with tape machines. I hear this in Kid for Today especially. I do the same thing with my band. Some entire songs are slowed and some samples only. Wondering if this is also what we hear in a lot of their stuff? Also wouldn't surprise me in EYDIAB. I also hear that effect in Jacquard Causeway and Semena. Just a thought.

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Also possibly Palace Posy

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That might also explain why some song samples are not in a specific key other than just "detuning" the pitch on the keyboard. They could drop the speed or also change the pitch on the tape machine. They mentioned old grundig tube recorders. These as far as I have used do not have pitch shift, although certain models might. If they use anything similar to a pioneer rt909 then it is entirely possible. I would love to see their outboard gear rack lol especially for mastering

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Great work! Definitely more of a music theory master than I am haha. I have always wondered what their songs entail in theory. Could you do jacquard causeway??? That's my favorite song in the whole world. It blows me away every time I hear it. It sounds the most complex to my ears.

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Soul_Slip wrote:That might also explain why some song samples are not in a specific key other than just "detuning" the pitch on the keyboard. They could drop the speed or also change the pitch on the tape machine. They mentioned old grundig tube recorders. These as far as I have used do not have pitch shift, although certain models might. If they use anything similar to a pioneer rt909 then it is entirely possible. I would love to see their outboard gear rack lol especially for mastering


I agree with you on this, if you listen to the version of 1969 from The Lighthouse performance it's a bit slower & pitched down than the album version. There's also the theory that XYZ was meant to be listened to at 33RPM (which I don't believe but it's a cool theory) so I can totally see BoC changing the speed of their songs.

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Yes absolutely. Might also explain the slight tempo shifts in Jacquard Causeway. I know of a technique in which you take a cassette/VHS recorder and expose the internals and while the tape is playing you can tune down the motors while recording the output to another recorder and cause all sorts of cool effects. I'll try to dig up the TH interview where one of the brothers alluded that they indeed did that for TH, I remember them saying that they would slow down tape motors intentionally.

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Current list of songs which I'll be looking at:

Jacquard Causeway
Bocuma
Echus
Happy Cycling
Dawn Chorus
Chinook
Skyliner

Working on JC now and will do Bocuma if I have time

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Jacquard Causeway is in B Minor, and also in what I believe to be 3/4 with swung eighth notes. I will admit right off the bat that I really don't know what the time signature does later (with the hihats that appear to be in a polyrhythm) but there's a lot of speculation about it here:

Spoiler: show
http://www.twoism.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=237384


I thought about melodically transcribing each new element that gets added to the song, but I couldn't find a lot of point in doing that. If somebody wants me to I can, but it wouldn't be very accurate later when they all get added in because the notes are difficult to separate. Around 1:14 the bass synth, which is a bit hidden by the kick, starts to play B, G instead of a looped B.

The moment at 3:46 when the pads come in full-blast is perhaps the biggest turning point in the song. The pads are actually playing a lot of extra notes: the B Minor chord becomes a B minor 9 with the A and C# (7th and 9th) added in, and the G Major chord becomes a G Major 9 with the F# and A (7th and 9th) added in. This, coupled with the brightness of the pads, makes the end of the song feel as though it is in D Major instead of B Minor by adding extra notes to make the key almost ambiguous.

Overall the progression of the song is fairly simple, it's the insane rhythmic experimentation and echoing melodic fragments that make Jacquard Causeway what it is.

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Link to pdf of Sundown for Wildfire:

Spoiler: show
https://www.dropbox.com/s/eoh5a0g35e5w72q/Sundown.pdf?dl=0


Amended 1 chord as well

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Bocuma is 9 measures of this and then a little more while Roygbiv fades in:

Image

The other synth just does some improvisation in the same scale, G Mixolydian. This scale is basically the G Major scale with a lowered 7th, F natural instead of F sharp. Detuned up a few cents.

There's really nothing super interesting about this song theoretically, and there doesn't have to be.

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15Dreams wrote:Link to pdf of Sundown for Wildfire:

Spoiler: show
https://www.dropbox.com/s/eoh5a0g35e5w72q/Sundown.pdf?dl=0


Amended 1 chord as well



You are in fact THE MAN. I owe you a beer 15Dreams. 8)

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Wildfire wrote:

You are in fact THE MAN. I owe you a beer 15Dreams. 8)


Come this November I can legally take you up on that offer...

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15Dreams wrote:Jacquard Causeway is in B Minor, and also in what I believe to be 3/4 with swung eighth notes. I will admit right off the bat that I really don't know what the time signature does later (with the hihats that appear to be in a polyrhythm) but there's a lot of speculation about it here:

Spoiler: show
http://www.twoism.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=237384


I thought about melodically transcribing each new element that gets added to the song, but I couldn't find a lot of point in doing that. If somebody wants me to I can, but it wouldn't be very accurate later when they all get added in because the notes are difficult to separate. Around 1:14 the bass synth, which is a bit hidden by the kick, starts to play B, G instead of a looped B.

The moment at 3:46 when the pads come in full-blast is perhaps the biggest turning point in the song. The pads are actually playing a lot of extra notes: the B Minor chord becomes a B minor 9 with the A and C# (7th and 9th) added in, and the G Major chord becomes a G Major 9 with the F# and A (7th and 9th) added in. This, coupled with the brightness of the pads, makes the end of the song feel as though it is in D Major instead of B Minor by adding extra notes to make the key almost ambiguous.

Overall the progression of the song is fairly simple, it's the insane rhythmic experimentation and echoing melodic fragments that make Jacquard Causeway what it is.

Ah yes! A master! Thanks man i knew it was 3/4 swung eighth but like you said it changes later on which I believe is a tape motor effect. I might try and use your analysis for covering the song though might be impossible because of the improv haha.

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I'll try and figure out as many of the patterns as I can. I know from memory (not in a place where I can listen to the song atm) the first one is B F# E A in dotted quarter's, and then the quick one is A G F#, and then the next one is A E A F# I believe. That's all I can remember right now.

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15Dreams wrote:Bocuma is 9 measures of this and then a little more while Roygbiv fades in:

Image

The other synth just does some improvisation in the same scale, G Mixolydian. This scale is basically the G Major scale with a lowered 7th, F natural instead of F sharp. Detuned up a few cents.

There's really nothing super interesting about this song theoretically, and there doesn't have to be.


Wow. Thank you very much!!! Definitely owe you a pint as well! You're going to drink for free this way you know.

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15Dreams wrote:I'll try and figure out as many of the patterns as I can. I know from memory (not in a place where I can listen to the song atm) the first one is B F# E A in dotted quarter's, and then the quick one is A G F#, and then the next one is A E A F# I believe. That's all I can remember right now.

Sweet thanks man sounds good! I'll look forward to the loops! It just baffles me that the brothers could come up with something like that which all fits together. I loved the geometrical analysis of Jacquard Causeway as well from one of the other threads that revealed it as a series of repeating hexagons almost like a honeycomb! Wild stuff, thanks again!

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Wildfire wrote:
15Dreams wrote:
Wildfire wrote:I'd love your thoughts on Sundown, that chord progression gives me the dang chills.


Me too, not sure why I hadn't looked at that one before today.

Chords are detuned between keys so I wrote in D but you'd need to tune your instrument higher. There's also some neat ones that I'll explain how to play:

A5 - just the root and the fifth, A and E
F5
GQ - This is a quintal chord built on G, meaning that you stack up in 5ths instead of a triad where you stack in thirds. The notes are G, D, and A on top. (More on this cool trick later!)
BbMaj7 - Bb, D, F, and A
DQ - D, A, and E on top
Bb Major - Bb, F, and D on top
DQ - this time put the E an octave higher
Bb Major - play the D an octave higher
CMaj7 - C, G, and B on top
EbMaj7 - Eb, Bb, and D on top
AQ - A, E, and B on top
D5
F5 - no bass on this one but fade it into
DQ
B9 - B in the bass, A, and C# on top
F#Q - F#, C#, G# on top
D5 - quickly fade in and fade out - no bass
F5 - no bass

Final chord starts off as a D5 but then a G fades in next to the A on top and I think a C fades into the bass slightly, making it rumble a bit more than necessary.

I'm going to say D minor for this one but only because it ends on a D. The obvious BoC secret here is the quintal chords - the open 5ths sound is very unique and especially when played on those wavering synth pads. There's a song by Port Blue that makes use of these same chords (progression is C Major, AbQ, FQ): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3eqf2uMOFs

bonus pic of the field I watched the sun set in the first time I heard this song :D
Spoiler: show
Image


This is fucking awesome. Thank you so much man, I understand enough music theory (UK grade 7 on piano) to understand what you are saying, and I can't wait to get home and try playing it from your notation. Thank you!

Also that is so cool that it's detuned between keys, that must be what gives it that unsettling edge throughout, even though it's gorgeous.

I don't suppose you have enough knowledge of analog synths to know what synth is being used? I've tried the following and can't get the same timbre, even with post processing....

SH101
Korg Monopoly
Juno 60
ARP Odyssey

Also when you have time, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the wonderfully simple but achingly beautiful 'Echus'.

EDIT: That is a fine view, just out of interest where do you live?


I think I may have found the synth for Sundown; check out the sound at the very start of this video for the Roland D-05;


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