____twoism

I feel I should already know this, but is the tape even 100% made by Box themselves?

rodox_head wrote:I feel I should already know this, but is the tape even 100% made by Box themselves?

Yeah, the songs have been confirmed by mdg to be BoC. But the release itself is unknown to have been compiled and curated by BoC. It could totally be a selection done by a close friend or lucky fan who got their hands on a quarter-archives load of rare material and decided to compile it into a 'best-of' compilation to copy to their friends. It could also be a personal, one off release that BoC don't remember doing. Either way, it's somewhat of a mystery, but the tunes are all congruent with BoC. You don't even need to have mdg's conformation to know this. Some of the songs use sounds that only BoC would have (seven forty seven flute loop in a06, june 9th isolated drum break in a08, among others). And a lot of the songs just have that undeniable feeling. Including A04.

I have a feeling that the tapes were sent out as demo tapes in the mid 90s. They sent more than one tape to Rephlex, Planet Mu had tapes too. After the warp signing I believe the tapes got into the wrong hands and ripped to mp3. It's a bit shitty because the labels did not sign them and should have destroyed the tapes. I believe that BoC were totally surprised at their initial success and would then possibly want to release old material. But this was now pointless.

I once had a conversation with a label boss, won't say who, but it was one of the big ones. Their listening behaviour to demos was, stick tape in, forward to random part, listen for about 3 seconds. If that 3 second hit did not grab them immediately then the tape would be ejected and the demo rejected. I can totally understand how that listening behaviour made them miss BoC. But I can also understand why that demo listening behaviour was used with the sheer amount of demos labels get.

funnnnpng wrote:

rodox_head wrote:I feel I should already know this, but is the tape even 100% made by Box themselves?

Yeah, the songs have been confirmed by mdg to be BoC. But the release itself is unknown to have been compiled and curated by BoC. It could totally be a selection done by a close friend or lucky fan who got their hands on a quarter-archives load of rare material and decided to compile it into a 'best-of' compilation to copy to their friends. It could also be a personal, one off release that BoC don't remember doing. Either way, it's somewhat of a mystery, but the tunes are all congruent with BoC. You don't even need to have mdg's conformation to know this. Some of the songs use sounds that only BoC would have (seven forty seven flute loop in a06, june 9th isolated drum break in a08, among others). And a lot of the songs just have that undeniable feeling. Including A04.

That's what I figured. B12 also sounds like an early version of Twoism, much like how Sequoia sounds like an early Roygbiv.

My theory is that R35TT was the fabled “Boc Set” and its leak around 2004ish is no coincidence as the brothers were talking, rather openly in fact, of the Boc Set around the time of Campfire Headphase’s release. (If my memory of their interviews isn’t failing me, that is.)

That being said, I also believe the sentiment of other users when I say that R35TT serves as a sampler of their earlier pre-Twoism catalogue, since, if you ask me, lots of the songs presented seem to sound like they belong together when arranged correctly.

PurpleFlurp wrote:My theory is that R35TT was the fabled “Boc Set” and its leak around 2004ish is no coincidence as the brothers were talking, rather openly in fact, of the Boc Set around the time of Campfire Headphase’s release. (If my memory of their interviews isn’t failing me, that is.)

Its first public leak to public P2P platforms was in 03-04, but it was evidently also privately leaked in some Yahoo groups a year or two before that. Either way it predates the boc-set promises (the first run of TCH interviews about 2005? i think?) and MDG was still promising it years later right around when he proved R35TT's validity as a set of actual BOC tracks (... and distinct from the set)

I don't think it was the "Bocset" from the early/mid 00s, otherwise it wouldn't have been ripped from a cassette tape. Also, some of the transitions sound homemade. I think it must be from the mid 90s.

Thatch wrote:I don't think it was the "Bocset" from the early/mid 00s, otherwise it wouldn't have been ripped from a cassette tape. Also, some of the transitions sound homemade. I think it must be from the mid 90s.

Fair point about it being a cassette rip, but R35TT has music from the geogaddi era (If The Smallest Weird Number was even recorded in 2001). So the tape could be as old as 2001/2 perhaps.

If we were to humor the idea that the contents of R35TT consist of the Pre-Twoism albums' material AND that the brothers even made R35TT in the first place, my only guess as to the meaning behind R35TT is that it might have been a 90s-version of the Bocset from before the days of MDG being 'in the know' about it. For all we know, BoC could have been kicking the idea of a Bocset in some form or another for many years already by the time the first interviews mentioning it came about.

I've always thought that someone who had access to the early tapes simply leaked it. Perhaps someone less trustworthy got ahold of a family member's tapes, burnt their favorite songs and released it onto the internet.

Probably the most plausible situation. They also hid the track lengths by fading in and out, so they'd never be able to tell which copy the music was sourced from. This was a precautionary measure so BOC wouldn't chop his hands off.

PurpleFlurp wrote:

Thatch wrote:I don't think it was the "Bocset" from the early/mid 00s, otherwise it wouldn't have been ripped from a cassette tape. Also, some of the transitions sound homemade. I think it must be from the mid 90s.

Fair point about it being a cassette rip, but R35TT has music from the geogaddi era (If The Smallest Weird Number was even recorded in 2001). So the tape could be as old as 2001/2 perhaps.

If we were to humor the idea that the contents of R35TT consist of the Pre-Twoism albums' material AND that the brothers even made R35TT in the first place, my only guess as to the meaning behind R35TT is that it might have been a 90s-version of the Bocset from before the days of MDG being 'in the know' about it. For all we know, BoC could have been kicking the idea of a Bocset in some form or another for many years already by the time the first interviews mentioning it came about.

TSWM is almost certainly just simply an old song. Geogaddi & MHRTC are both compilations of a certain style+era of their material in some sense, and multiple tracks either sound old (Triangles or I Saw Drones) or are provably at least a LITTLE bit older (anything non-exclusive off Maxima / Color of the Fire). The fact that R35TT contains no material that sounds more advanced than maybe Twoism era makes it more likely to me that it was compiled around Twoism era.

Why must it be seen as the "bocset"? It's not meant to be a collection of rare tracks they did in the 90's, it's just a mix of their music (whether by them or someone who somehow had access to the music, like a HS member). They, like many artists, almost certainly had many, many mixes of their music back in the day, just like AFOT, OTV2, Maxima, or Remii Vol. 1 (& I struggle to believe that's it). R35TT is mostly likely not special, and just happened to be the one leaked -- it's not clouded in obscurity because it's particularly weird, but by nature.

I believe R35TT was a slightly throwaway compilation BoC gave to a friend when they said "can I hear some of your music?" before they had anything out. Then, once BoC got more popular, this now presumably ex-friend decided to leak it once he realized he had valuable material. I just wished he had saved the track names...

Maybe Joyrex has the song names? He did provide the timestamps for each song.

Not that it really matters to me. I think having a song named "A01" adds to the mysterious audio.

sandrail wrote:Maybe Joyrex has the song names? He did provide the timestamps for each song.

Not that it really matters to me. I think having a song named "A01" adds to the mysterious audio.

He said his copy came without a j-card, which i believe is bullshit. He might not even really have it. Although then again, the initial run of Closes vol 1 came w/o a j-card, so maybe there's some truth to what joyrex is saying.

funnnnpng wrote:Although then again, the initial run of Closes vol 1 came w/o a j-card, so maybe there's some truth to what joyrex is saying.

Source?

sandrail wrote:

funnnnpng wrote:Although then again, the initial run of Closes vol 1 came w/o a j-card, so maybe there's some truth to what joyrex is saying.

Source?

I can't find it but I thought someone PM'd PiC asking about the closes art and it was mentioned that he never actually designed a j-card for the original cassette run

One question that's been on my mind lately: Were the bros really that proud of "Blueberry" and "It's Too Orangey" to end up including them both on two future releases, and virtually untouched? No hate on the pieces, I just find it funny how those two manged to survive elimination rounds from Old Tunes to MHTRTC.

I'd have replaced one of the shorter tracks on MHTRTC with "On A Rolling Sea".

I feel like if R35TT was a curated tape as a demo or for Lulz giving out to a friend on a one-off basis, the bros would still remember that. so I'd rule that out.

seems more likely the other theory someone had access to unreleased tapes and compiled some of their favorites and just uploaded it to soul seek for some internet Cred. never noticed the tracks fade in and out as mentioned somewhere in this thread. like I do, ive heard them many times, but I never concretely thought about it haha

still some hard hitters on that tape, wherever it came from.

funnnnpng wrote:

sandrail wrote:Maybe Joyrex has the song names? He did provide the timestamps for each song.

Not that it really matters to me. I think having a song named "A01" adds to the mysterious audio.

He said his copy came without a j-card, which i believe is bullshit. He might not even really have it. Although then again, the initial run of Closes vol 1 came w/o a j-card, so maybe there's some truth to what joyrex is saying.

common misinterpretation - while joyrex phrased that badly, he never owned r35tt physically, he just had access to the files for a while before the public leak (not that uncommon amongst the more know-it-all circles of the early 2000s). he didn't have the names and the track times are taken from the noise reduced 320kbps version which is the most commonly circulated version. he clears up that confusion in a 2006 comment on watmm

Didn't Sean Booth say something about how the brothers "cut off ties" after r35tt leaked?