Good luck, America

[SamuraiDrifter]

It's still sad that this is seen as some sort of great accomplishment. That the country sunk to a point where removing a complete jizzrag from office is seen as progress in any capacity.

I couldn't agree more. I'm glad to see Trump gone, but let's not forget that Biden's record is full of deplorable attacks on people of color and the working class, and support for wars for profit.

This is a man who began his campaign running on the promise that "nothing would fundamentally change," who directly stated he'd veto Medicare for All if it came across his desk, who played a pivotal role in shooting down Bernie Sanders and Paul Wellstone's fair pricing amendment that would have lowered the cost of pharmaceuticals.

He's no friend, just a (maybe) slightly less dangerous enemy. And anyone who thinks getting rid of Trump will solve America's problems will get a rude awakening next time there's another police shooting.

[2020k]

In the mean time, I'm just happy that I won't have to see or hear or read about his annoying ass all the time for the next four years.

I hope Twitter bans him the day Biden takes office or the first time he says something outrageous after he inevitably concedes and moves out of office.

On the flipside, I've been watching all of the Biden/Harris press conferences because it's such a breath of fresh air to listen to an administration that's trying to hold morale and political standard, as the middle of the road it will be.

Sigh, 73% of Republicans are Questioning Biden's Win. The only things contesting this win is a screaming president with no facts and Republicans in the office that are afraid to go against what the leader of their party says because he is on a firing frenzy (which is, again, terrifying). How are this many voters this willing to follow the Trump Administration down so many false rabbit holes?

[fujee]

It's still sad that this is seen as some sort of great accomplishment. That the country sunk to a point where removing a complete jizzrag from office is seen as progress in any capacity.

I couldn't agree more. I'm glad to see Trump gone, but let's not forget that Biden's record is full of deplorable attacks on people of color and the working class, and support for wars for profit.

This is a man who began his campaign running on the promise that "nothing would fundamentally change," who directly stated he'd veto Medicare for All if it came across his desk, who played a pivotal role in shooting down Bernie Sanders and Paul Wellstone's fair pricing amendment that would have lowered the cost of pharmaceuticals.

He's no friend, just a (maybe) slightly less dangerous enemy. And anyone who thinks getting rid of Trump will solve America's problems will get a rude awakening next time there's another police shooting.

Yep. Trump is a symptom of the failings of liberalism. Getting rid of him was without doubt the best outcome but Biden is far from promising. He says he's tough on climate yet is committed to fracking. He also chose Kamala as his VP, who at one time labelled herself a 'top cop', and has routinely avoided intervening in cases involving killings by police. Pretty tone deaf considering what's happened leading up to this election.

I fully expect the GOP to win again in 2024.

[2020k]

Just to clarify on fracking for that are outside of the country: rural USA loves fracking. It's a big industry in this country and even more, is a huge moneymaker for families who are sitting on land that can be fracked that wouldn't have many financial opportunities otherwise. If any politician outright comes out against fracking in this country, at this point, then they might as well immediately throw the towel in. It's going to take a little bit of other climate change progress in this country until the general mindset toward fracking starts to shift.

In Pennsylvania, specifically, I live here and know people who work in or benefit from fracking. I've had conversations with people who work in fracking who have asked me "if we ban fracking, what am I supposed to do?" and they murderously look at me like I have five heads when I tell them there are other, less harmful industries to work in and that a ban on fracking would most likely add a ton of jobs in the industries that replace fracking. I don't think we would have flipped if Biden hadn't backtracked on his fracking stance this time around. Pennsylvania would've gone red again, just like Ohio (who, correct me if I'm wrong, was also expected to voe Biden this time, but didn't and is a bit more rural than Pennsylvania).

This is why Trump tried to come for Biden's throat over his wishy-washy fracking track record. It was one of the only in's Trump realistically had to sway voters his way this election. Biden's opposed it in the past, but unfortunately had to back-peddle on it to gain ground during the election. I hope that whatever he does in the office helps to progress the mindset of this country past its fracking obsession.

Again, this post is just for some context. I seethed and my mouth actually dropped when Biden backtracked on fracking; at the same time, I completely understood the reason for it. It was just a typical game of politics. Progress in the states (and elsewhere, I suppose) is slow, both by political design and by the stubbornness of the general public's resilience toward shifting their mindset toward different perspectives.

[fujee]

I get it. Biden had to play it safe considering how little ground-game campaigning he did. Like you say, it was a political move and it worked. But it only further serves to show how utterly bereft of ideas the centre ground is at this point. I can't recall a single policy promoted by Biden in the campaign other than him being the 'not Trump' option. I know this election wasn't ever really about ideas, given the conditions under which it happened, but the Democrats need to do something different to avoid Trump 2.0 in 2024. Respectability politics will only get you so far.

[2020k]

I think that Biden was a nice step back toward normalcy, but I agree with your post completely. Although, I do like the direction he is going in with his college financial reform policies. Whether or not those will actually come to fruition, who knows, but the amount of money it takes for someone in the states to attend any sort of post-High School education is insane.

However, we've seen the Republican party teeter over the last 12 years. We had John McCain pair himself with crazy-ass Sarah Palin out of desperation to try to negate Barack's blackness with a woman in 2008. Following that bizarre tactic, we got a pretty normal Mitt Romney/Paul Ryan ticket in 2012. Once that didn't work, we somehow got peak insanity with the Trump/Pence ticket in 2016 and all signs point to racism against Barack Obama's presidency and misogyny over Hillary Clinton being the Democratic nominee being a key component to how the Trump/Pence win happened.

I am not, for the record, saying racism and misogyny alone played the Trump win but was a large part of how the Alt-Right saw their celebrity reality TV show host, whose hotels they've stayed in, running for the White House, and decided to become full crazy over the last four years.

I wonder if the results of 2020 will have the Republican party reaching for a pair of normal candidates out of safety in 2024. George W. Bush's quote in 2016 comes to mind where he said that he worries he will be the last Republican president in office after what was happening to the party. That quote is followed by him sitting next to Hillary Clinton at the 2016 Trump inauguration, leaning over to her, and saying "ain't this some shit?" (quoted in her book What Happened).

We'll see, I guess. I don't mind Biden/Harris in the office for now. At least my complaints will be geared more toward their policies that I won't agree with, rather than "WHAT IN THE WORLD ARE YOU DOING ENRAGING THE ENTIRE GLOBE LIKE THIS FROM YOUR TWITTER ACCOUNT????" The amount of anxiety the Trump administration left me with over the last four years...I thought I left that level of anxiety behind when I graduated from High School and left the little close-minded suburban Pennslyvania town I grew up in. I'll never forget this level of anxiety.

[A_Northern_Soul]

I am not, for the record, saying racism and misogyny alone played the Trump win but was a large part of how the Alt-Right saw their celebrity reality TV show host, whose hotels they've stayed in, running for the White House, and decided to become full crazy over the last four years.

I wonder if the results of 2020 will have the Republican party reaching for a pair of normal candidates out of safety in 2024.

I think this is a really valid point - and one to watch closely from a UK perspective too because our political weirdness is never far behind the US. The Republicans seem to be at a turning point - they've got their traditional (but aging) base to appeal to... but they've also got the Trump personality cult headbangers onboard - the alt-right, the culture war weirdoes - how do you keep one on side without alienating the others. Do the GOP want to risk losing the Trump crazies? They're a vocal base - but they're also fucking nuts. It feels like the Tories are in a similar position here - where once you'd have very posh, prviliged white men running the country in a stuffy, old fashioned detached way, the Dom Cummings era has made them start to act deeply weird to be seen as anti-establishment outsiders.

What Biden has done is appear as the safe pair of hands. No, he isn't perfect, but the sniping from the left that he isn't Bernie or isn't a revolutionary communist is NOT HELPFUL. Seeing Biden's first appearances as president elect was reassuring - he was calm and measured... it's what was needed. The horse was no longer in the hospital (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhkZMxg ... &index=201) - that was the message. He's an old man and I can't see him running again - I'm sure he's pretty much gone on record as saying his role is to lay a foundation for younger, more progressive politicians coming through. He's a placeholder, there to get things back on track.

And I think this is where the left here in the UK has gone wrong over the last 5 years - we didn't a weird old crank and a bunch of wealthy kids cosplaying at being communists.

[fujee]

What Biden has done is appear as the safe pair of hands. No, he isn't perfect, but the sniping from the left that he isn't Bernie or isn't a revolutionary communist is NOT HELPFUL. Seeing Biden's first appearances as president elect was reassuring - he was calm and measured... it's what was needed. The horse was no longer in the hospital (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhkZMxg ... &index=201) - that was the message. He's an old man and I can't see him running again - I'm sure he's pretty much gone on record as saying his role is to lay a foundation for younger, more progressive politicians coming through. He's a placeholder, there to get things back on track.

Sorry mate but I disagree with a lot of this.

Progressives lent their support to Biden in this election (even if it was tacit approval from some, like AOC). Those people have a right to put the pressure on, especially as Biden has a tendency to punch left rather than right. It was vital to get rid of Trump and to that end Biden did the job. But his responsibilities now go much further than simply bringing US politics back to a more 'respectable' playing field. Is it sniping to stand up for the things you believe in? I don't think it is.

I also find it hard to see Biden as a launchpad for younger, more progressive candidates. He may say so to appease the left of his party but politics doesn't work like that. Biden's always been a centrist, so why in the twilight of his career would he suddenly change tack and attempt to push the Dems to the left? Can't see it happening.

I would love to be wrong but his party has a real knack for ignoring what's right in front of it. Why did they end up going for Hillary when Bernie outperformed her in key general election states during the primaries? The US's supposed allergy to anything remotely 'socialist' is massively overstated. Fox News published a poll recently that showed big support among its viewers for state-funded healthcare. It's insights like these that provide justification for progressives to point out where Biden is going wrong.

[SamuraiDrifter]

Let's once again keep in mind that Biden directly stated he'd veto Medicare for All if it came across his desk.

Asking for healthcare is not radical, not "communist" or revolutionary. It should be the absolute bare minimum in a civilized society. People who can afford insurance may have the privilege of sitting back and playing nice, but even before this pandemic, those with health problems and no health insurance were dying, couldn't afford their medication, couldn't see a doctor, and the moderate Democrats weren't doing jack shit about it. These people without insurance are my friends and family and community members and I don't take too kindly to the suggestion they should fold their hands and wait patiently for a group of rich, career politicians in the pockets of big business to do the right thing.

So yes. Progressives have every right to push Biden from the left. The alternative is more riots and burning shit to the ground until things change.

[Jonse]

First and foremost let's keep in mind before all else that the intent was to remove Trump's administration as soon as possible.

This is not the 19th century. Fuck the constitution if it MUST be treated as some kind of holy document and the foundation of this country if the process outlined that we've used as structure thus far can continue to impede our ability to change things. We absolutely (and should) attempt to focus on, in the event Biden fails, completely reconstructing how our country works without dwelling in the past as a reason to impact literally anything we might do to better things now provided they make sense. The difference between Trump and Biden is that in the event of the US citizens being so completely exhausted and pissed off, we actually see some of "revolution" - a laughable buzzword these days, thrown from every conceivable political angle and affiliation, for every reason imaginable - one might yield to what is beneficial for the country. Super ironic that it isn't the "non-politician" poised to "drain the swamp" lololololololololol. It's embarrassing anyone fell for that.

Some decades from now, when Biden is probably dead, this sort of change will come in the form of dramatic government overhaul. The MAGA successor, whatever that ends up being, whatever defines those people in the future, will have no understanding or interest in this reform small or extreme and from what I can gather simply will continue to push forward ideas that'd shape the country into one that benefits a very specific selection of people comfortable in the decision to completely turn away from those who they hope will be phased out over time, those who do not fall into the group they are comfortable with, doesn't matter who in particular but "(((they)))" know who they are. Whatever example you want.

In this regard, Biden and the DNC, the successor to Biden or their successor, may be capable of being cooperative. I would hope so because while we've had extremist cults before, they've gained more traction than ever and we will have to deal with it. When everything reaches critical mass, restructure on a level that hasn't happened in a very long time is something they might open to abide to if it is in fact the will of the people. That's the difference and the part of the MAGA crowd I'm talking about will never do that and whatever their reasons to feel the way they do are, they would rather see a grand embarrassment of destruction than to behave coherently at all. They're all victims. They peddled "snowflake" for years as nothing more than a projection of what they are. I really, really gave the president, Washington and the people who support the president a chance and they have shown me, nearly to a 90% frequency, that "if I go down, I'm taking everything with me" is their ideology. This post wasn't supposed to be so long but I feel people are focusing too much on Biden's shortcomings when it's something we sort of already know and the very, very good thing here is that he is in. It's not awesome, it's not progress. Of course not. It's just rectifying a four year long mistake.

Sorry to ramble on and go all over the place but I've been relatively quiet for years and I think it's all very simple. Everything I said would still apply if the Republicans took it upon themselves to select another candidate to run and that would almost certainly be an improvement. That is one of the most overlooked things here. The party of Trump is not the Republican party and I don't want to make any Republicans feel bad because of my criticisms toward him. It is something entirely different and far more surface-level toxic, stated that way because they can only talk. They are bereft of balls. In my state, Arizona, many protesters showed up with guns. The type of folks I know do not fire them and are terrible shots flexing what little they can for their distorted view of patriotism. We *will* have to deal with this cult now. They are here to stay. A tale as old as Pontius and Jesus, momentous hivemind ideology will persuade even the most sensible of them to look the other way when confronted by the horrific, insane mistreatment of their neighbors, brothers and sisters if they do not conveniently fit into their idea of what America should be, be it truly felt in their heart, cognitive dissonance or an absolute perseverance to fit in and be accepted. Do not misunderstand this.

[SamuraiDrifter]

I disagree that the Republican party is not the party of Trump. He inspired loyalty and devotion like no other politician in decades and the vast majority of party officials fell in line behind him.

Now that the party has gotten a taste of the power of his anti- intellectual, fascistic populism, you can bet there will be more up-and-coming politicians looking to tap into that base and that power.

Only the next ones who come along might not be so crass and blatantly unprofessional as Trump. They might not run their mouth on Twitter all the time. They might know the right empty words to placate the media and the heads of both parties.

In short, they might actually be more dangerous than Trump.

[Mexicola]

What Biden has done is appear as the safe pair of hands. No, he isn't perfect, but the sniping from the left that he isn't Bernie or isn't a revolutionary communist is NOT HELPFUL. Seeing Biden's first appearances as president elect was reassuring - he was calm and measured... it's what was needed. The horse was no longer in the hospital (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhkZMxg ... &index=201) - that was the message. He's an old man and I can't see him running again - I'm sure he's pretty much gone on record as saying his role is to lay a foundation for younger, more progressive politicians coming through. He's a placeholder, there to get things back on track.

Sorry mate but I disagree with a lot of this.

Progressives lent their support to Biden in this election (even if it was tacit approval from some, like AOC). Those people have a right to put the pressure on, especially as Biden has a tendency to punch left rather than right. It was vital to get rid of Trump and to that end Biden did the job. But his responsibilities now go much further than simply bringing US politics back to a more 'respectable' playing field. Is it sniping to stand up for the things you believe in? I don't think it is.

I also find it hard to see Biden as a launchpad for younger, more progressive candidates. He may say so to appease the left of his party but politics doesn't work like that. Biden's always been a centrist, so why in the twilight of his career would he suddenly change tack and attempt to push the Dems to the left? Can't see it happening.

I would love to be wrong but his party has a real knack for ignoring what's right in front of it. Why did they end up going for Hillary when Bernie outperformed her in key general election states during the primaries? The US's supposed allergy to anything remotely 'socialist' is massively overstated. Fox News published a poll recently that showed big support among its viewers for state-funded healthcare. It's insights like these that provide justification for progressives to point out where Biden is going wrong.

But I suspect strongly that Sanders would not have won, either now or four years ago. It wasn't progressives that he had to win over.

[Mexicola]

I disagree that the Republican party is not the party of Trump. He inspired loyalty and devotion like no other politician in decades and the vast majority of party officials fell in line behind him.

Now that the party has gotten a taste of the power of his anti- intellectual, fascistic populism, you can bet there will be more up-and-coming politicians looking to tap into that base and that power.

Only the next ones who come along might not be so crass and blatantly unprofessional as Trump. They might not run their mouth on Twitter all the time. They might know the right empty words to placate the media and the heads of both parties.

In short, they might actually be more dangerous than Trump.

Agreed. This mirrors my fears.

[Josh]

This is basically what Chris Hedges has been saying for awhile now, and as sanctimonious as he can be, he's one of the few people who can properly articulate the unvarnished truth of how fucked the U.S. is, Trump or no Trump.

[fujee]

What Biden has done is appear as the safe pair of hands. No, he isn't perfect, but the sniping from the left that he isn't Bernie or isn't a revolutionary communist is NOT HELPFUL. Seeing Biden's first appearances as president elect was reassuring - he was calm and measured... it's what was needed. The horse was no longer in the hospital (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhkZMxg ... &index=201) - that was the message. He's an old man and I can't see him running again - I'm sure he's pretty much gone on record as saying his role is to lay a foundation for younger, more progressive politicians coming through. He's a placeholder, there to get things back on track.

Sorry mate but I disagree with a lot of this.

Progressives lent their support to Biden in this election (even if it was tacit approval from some, like AOC). Those people have a right to put the pressure on, especially as Biden has a tendency to punch left rather than right. It was vital to get rid of Trump and to that end Biden did the job. But his responsibilities now go much further than simply bringing US politics back to a more 'respectable' playing field. Is it sniping to stand up for the things you believe in? I don't think it is.

I also find it hard to see Biden as a launchpad for younger, more progressive candidates. He may say so to appease the left of his party but politics doesn't work like that. Biden's always been a centrist, so why in the twilight of his career would he suddenly change tack and attempt to push the Dems to the left? Can't see it happening.

I would love to be wrong but his party has a real knack for ignoring what's right in front of it. Why did they end up going for Hillary when Bernie outperformed her in key general election states during the primaries? The US's supposed allergy to anything remotely 'socialist' is massively overstated. Fox News published a poll recently that showed big support among its viewers for state-funded healthcare. It's insights like these that provide justification for progressives to point out where Biden is going wrong.

But I suspect strongly that Sanders would not have won, either now or four years ago. It wasn't progressives that he had to win over.

Maybe, maybe not. Given how well populism has done over the last five years, it's not outlandish to think Sanders could have won over enough undecided voters in 2016. Hillary's performance in the primaries should have given the DNC pause for thought, especially as her time in the Obama administration gave Trump so much ammunition on the campaign trail. Granted, the primaries aren't a reflection of the entire country but it definitely signaled a problem she would go on to have in the general election, i.e, she wasn't seen to have people's best interests at heart. I believe Sanders would have fared better than Hillary, particularly as Trump seemed to find so much success with an anti-establishment message.

This year's election seems less clear. Was it Biden's centrism that secured the win? Possibly. Hard to tell when he had little to say on policy and the country had just gone through four years of Trump. People were going to vote, even if wasn't their first choice candidate. The massive rise in turnout showed that.

I am happy Trump is on his way out. Whether it's for good is anyone's guess.

[Twoist]

I am happy Trump is on his way out. Whether it's for good is anyone's guess.

It's for good. The GOP aren't going to hang around for four years to bring him back as their 2024 candidate and he isn't capable of doing this alone. Seems to me that Trump is mentally ill or just actually evil. The only thing he's going to be doing from January 20th is fighting to stay out of a NY State correctional facility. State prosecutors are circling like sharks once his executive privilege disappears in the space of thirty minutes during Biden's inauguration.

Now his -kids-.. that's who we should be keeping a close eye on.

[Jonse]

Samurai, I'm not exactly sure you understood my point. Pertaining to the textbook Republicans, such as the kind that previously did not stoop so low to disregard years of ideology (however wrong) they campaign on to identify with the blatant, cheating nonsense even Fox News has been seen as "too liberal" denouncing...

Whether or not "Republican" is the label is less relevant in what I was talking about as I happen to agree with everything you said up to the point where you wanted to argue against what I said based on a single word. To be honest, I was trying to be label-fair. I think there's a toxic attribute that, if Republican, warrants its own designation.

Actually, I think that was obvious and had been made apparent years ago.

[Mexicola]

I see a bunch of sheep just found a 12 foot tall metal monolith out in the Utah desert. 2020. Kubrick and Clarke as modern day Nostradamus. Hopes rise that Trump will be fired into a Stargate via an automaton having a meltdown (see Giuliano's liquid hair). Thus Spake Zarathustra. Bigly.

[Jonse]

Don't get my hopes up.

[Mexicola]

Two more weeks of this America? You found a grassy knoll and a magic bullet for JFK.