Depression

Random chat: movies, books, games, technology, etcetera.

Moderators: Mexicola, 2020k, Fredd-E, Aesthetics

User avatar
Sherbet Head
Status: Offline
Posts: 569
Joined: 2 Jun 2012
Location: Netherlands
rodox_head wrote:@Gazebo4
I'm curious, what is your/do you have a take on the concept of a tulpa?


Sorry it took a while for me to reply. So here is my non-dual perspective on this phenomenon.

So first let's take a look at the meaning of the word 'tulpa'. Just going by Wikipedia it states that it is "an object or being that is created through spiritual or mental powers."

The experience of such a phenomenon is real, as is all experience, but the phenomenon itself, that which is being experienced, is not. I will elaborate on this with an analogy. When we watch a landscape on the television, is the experience of watching the landscape real? I'd say we can agree that the experience itself is very real. But what about the landscape itself that is being played on the screen, the object of our attention? One could say that the only reality to the contents of the screen, is the screen itself upon which it is played. The screen creates the images and then the images will disappear again. And all that ever remains is the screen, which is outside of time and space.

Now let's take this analogy to our 4 dimensional world that we perceive with our senses. Our experience of all our perceptions is real, but that which is being experienced is ultimately an illusion, or dream if you will, temporary expressions of consciousness. Why? Because the only reality to the content of our mind, that which is being experienced, is That which is aware of experience in the first place. A common word for that reality is 'I' or 'consciousness'. It is That which is fundamental to experience, but cannot be understood rationally, only known experientially.

Without being aware/conscious you would not even be able to perceive anything at all. Furthermore, everything that you experience is happening inside this infinite space of consciousness. There is nothing but consciousness as it is the source of everything. There is nothing outside of consciousness. Ask yourself the question 'Have I ever experienced anything outside myself?' It is simply impossible. The mistake most people make is to assume that our experience is made out of something called 'matter' or 'mind', which supposedly exists independently of consciousness. This is the grand delusion that creates all the suffering in the world. Scientists have been searching for the existence of matter for decades, failing of course, but that is a conversation for another topic.

So now let's go back to the phenomenon of a tulpa. It is a seemingly created, imaginary, sentient being. So the experience of a tulpa is real, in the sense that the experience of thoughts and images that seem to make up this phenomenon is real, but the contents of this experience itself are not, meaning that the only reality to a tulpa, is consciousness itself which is aware of it. A tulpa is not a separate entity, because nothing is separate from consciousness, which is one undivided, eternal and infinite knowing of being aware.

So in summary, do not discard or resist your experience, it itself is real. But see the unreality of what is being perceived. This will free you from suffering because there is nothing that stands out from yourself as you are the Source of everything, literally.

If you want to be free from this created (self) image, you can practice self-inquiry to dissect your assumptions and beliefs piece by piece. And step by step clarity will be revealed to you.

I hope this makes any sense at all as in my opinion it is not so easy to explain because it is really a paradigm shift what I'm talking about. I myself have suffered from depression for years and this is what totally changed the way I look at, well basically everything but most importantly it made me realize that I already am what I was looking for, peace.
"What you are looking for, is where you are looking from."

User avatar
Dayvan Cowboy
Status: Offline
Posts: 1201
Joined: 23 Aug 2017
Location: planet daz
Gazebo4 wrote:
So first let's take a look at the meaning of the word 'tulpa'. Just going by Wikipedia it states that it is "an object or being that is created through spiritual or mental powers."

The experience of such a phenomenon is real, as is all experience, but the phenomenon itself, that which is being experienced, is not. I will elaborate on this with an analogy. When we watch a landscape on the television, is the experience of watching the landscape real? I'd say we can agree that the experience itself is very real. But what about the landscape itself that is being played on the screen, the object of our attention? One could say that the only reality to the contents of the screen, is the screen itself upon which it is played. The screen creates the images and then the images will disappear again. And all that ever remains is the screen, which is outside of time and space.

Now let's take this analogy to our 4 dimensional world that we perceive with our senses. Our experience of all our perceptions is real, but that which is being experienced is ultimately an illusion, or dream if you will, temporary expressions of consciousness. Why? Because the only reality to the content of our mind, that which is being experienced, is That which is aware of experience in the first place. A common word for that reality is 'I' or 'consciousness'. It is That which is fundamental to experience, but cannot be understood rationally, only known experientially.

Without being aware/conscious you would not even be able to perceive anything at all. Furthermore, everything that you experience is happening inside this infinite space of consciousness. There is nothing but consciousness as it is the source of everything. There is nothing outside of consciousness. Ask yourself the question 'Have I ever experienced anything outside myself?' It is simply impossible. The mistake most people make is to assume that our experience is made out of something called 'matter' or 'mind', which supposedly exists independently of consciousness. This is the grand delusion that creates all the suffering in the world. Scientists have been searching for the existence of matter for decades, failing of course, but that is a conversation for another topic.


It sounds like you take on a more solipsistic and nihilistic approach to external phenomena, in that it doesn't inherently matter to us on an individual level, since we ultimately lack the ability to experience it anyway. In the case of a tulpa, it is that we experience it because it is still within our own consciousness, not that it is an external force like the concept perpetuates.

So now let's go back to the phenomenon of a tulpa. It is a seemingly created, imaginary, sentient being. So the experience of a tulpa is real, in the sense that the experience of thoughts and images that seem to make up this phenomenon is real, but the contents of this experience itself are not, meaning that the only reality to a tulpa, is consciousness itself which is aware of it. A tulpa is not a separate entity, because nothing is separate from consciousness, which is one undivided, eternal and infinite knowing of being aware.


As I was thinking. Despite the sensation that I may perceive my tulpa (or alter-ego/imaginary friend in more layman's terms) as an external, yet nonexistent, entity, I still can understand that it is still an extension of my own individual psychological makeup.

So in summary, do not discard or resist your experience, it itself is real. But see the unreality of what is being perceived. This will free you from suffering because there is nothing that stands out from yourself as you are the Source of everything, literally.

If you want to be free from this created (self) image, you can practice self-inquiry to dissect your assumptions and beliefs piece by piece. And step by step clarity will be revealed to you.


I think there is a positive outcome to this. "Seeing" myself split into seperate psychological entities has allowed me the chance to analyze myself on an archetypal level, as well as build a mental connection to who/what I gravitate to. Going back to your example with seeing the landscape on a TV screen, the same could be said of other people. When one experiences both a physical and emotional isolation from other people, there may come a form of "objectification" for lack of a better word. However, when I start to see them as, or from the POV of, my alter, I can find some sense in my emotions, as well as see them as their own universe that I cannot impose my own thoughts onto nor comprehend. Think of it like a phrase akin to "You remind me of my sister/friend/etc."

I hope this makes any sense at all as in my opinion it is not so easy to explain because it is really a paradigm shift what I'm talking about. I myself have suffered from depression for years and this is what totally changed the way I look at, well basically everything but most importantly it made me realize that I already am what I was looking for, peace.


I have trouble putting this kind of thing into words as well since I'm mostly just guessing as to what may be going on. Things like this aren't easy to bring up with people out of the blue, but it has been taking an exorbitant amount of mental energy out me as of late.
Image
In here is a tragedy, art thou player or audience?
Be as it may, the end doth remain:
all go on only toward death.
...
There is nothing which cannot become a puppet of fate
or an onlooker, peering into the cage.

User avatar
Sherbet Head
Status: Offline
Posts: 569
Joined: 2 Jun 2012
Location: Netherlands
Interesting and honest reaction Rodox. I still feel I haven't done a great job explaining it, because in hindsight my perspective, and specifically the wording and approach, might've been too generic. Next time I will try to tailor it more to the personal/human level. I'll have some time this weekend to reply.

I just want to point out however that non-duality is not a nihilistic approach, quite the opposite actually. Even though what I wrote may be taken as such in the wrong context. This is the realm where language and concepts become increasingly tricky, so I will try to do a better job at conveying my perspective from a more intimate and loving angle.

I will give a quick analogy before delving into it in more detail. So, you can see the non-dual perspective as a mother who is watching her child play in the garden through the window. She is not particularly interested in the activities or stories the child is engaged in, but there is a loving distance in which she just watches this innocent child. She does not resist or deny the child or the activities and stories the child is engaged in, but also doesn't concern herself with either. It's just an unconditional loving presence.

In this analogy, relative experience of life itself is never denied, resisted or pushed away. It is just the clear seeing of what is real and what is ultimately not. The unreal is a dualistic play of life, which is just happening and being experienced. And all that is happening is a spontaneous expression of Life itself, but that which is experienced is never a threat to Life itself because its very source IS Life. It cannot be threatened by something that arises from itself. So there is a deep, loving understanding that all experience is really perfectly okay, whatever temporary form it may take on. Life can take on the form of depression, a tulpa, a nice dinner with friends, an earthquake, a grain of sand, a nuclear war, a beautiful song, etc. Everything is Life and Life is everything. There is no separation, because there is One source from which all things depend ;) So even the concepts of good and evil, positive and negative, cease to be because they are seen as One, two sides of the same coin.

Hope this makes some sense. I will reply later to your answers, trying to do so on a more "human" level :)
"What you are looking for, is where you are looking from."

User avatar
Dayvan Cowboy
Status: Offline
Posts: 1201
Joined: 23 Aug 2017
Location: planet daz
It may be cliche, but listening to this with headphones at max volume is my best representation of what depression feels like, I wish I could tell other people that:

phpBB [media]


Every day, the future looks bleaker and bleaker.
Image
In here is a tragedy, art thou player or audience?
Be as it may, the end doth remain:
all go on only toward death.
...
There is nothing which cannot become a puppet of fate
or an onlooker, peering into the cage.

User avatar
Happy Cycler
Status: Offline
Posts: 3425
Joined: 25 Mar 2011
Location: BPR. OG
phpBB [media]
Okay...now...wait for fog machine.

User avatar
Dayvan Cowboy
Status: Offline
Posts: 1940
Joined: 21 Apr 2013
Was bashing alcohol before. But sometimes when you are really down, it is the only thing which can help you out. Just eases you a little.
Image

User avatar
Sherbet Head
Status: Offline
Posts: 569
Joined: 19 Sep 2022
Location: USA
arvy wrote:Was bashing alcohol before. But sometimes when you are really down, it is the only thing which can help you out. Just eases you a little.


Sort of feel the same way with pot. The only difference is that instead of 'replacing' the feeling, it more-or-less just delays it until later (personally speaking). Helps when I can't motivate myself to do much else other than sitting in a dark room at a computer screen but still deeply need the reflection (without the obsessive thoughts).

I will say that I struggle a lot with being a chronic pot-smoker... definitely not a fix for everyone down in rock bottom.... a lot of the time that 'delay' can quickly warp into simply running away from the problem. While useful, it can really ring hollow if you're not careful (or don't stop). Always a difference between using it as a tool vs using it as an escape. Gotta balance it, like with anything else in life.

User avatar
Dayvan Cowboy
Status: Offline
Posts: 1940
Joined: 21 Apr 2013
steeldancer-x wrote:
arvy wrote:Was bashing alcohol before. But sometimes when you are really down, it is the only thing which can help you out. Just eases you a little.


Sort of feel the same way with pot. The only difference is that instead of 'replacing' the feeling, it more-or-less just delays it until later (personally speaking). Helps when I can't motivate myself to do much else other than sitting in a dark room at a computer screen but still deeply need the reflection (without the obsessive thoughts).

I will say that I struggle a lot with being a chronic pot-smoker... definitely not a fix for everyone down in rock bottom.... a lot of the time that 'delay' can quickly warp into simply running away from the problem. While useful, it can really ring hollow if you're not careful (or don't stop). Always a difference between using it as a tool vs using it as an escape. Gotta balance it, like with anything else in life.


Thanks, I think that you’re lying in the dirt and you want to stand up, the alcohol, pot or any drug, would not help you. As you you should face your reality as it is.
Now I feel, I don’t have to prove something to anybody anymore. Something inside me is tearing me apart. I just know that I will not be the same as I was before. There’s no shelter for me. I’m not normal human anymore. I want something big, or I want nothing. As I am expandable and pain is temporary.
Image

User avatar
Dayvan Cowboy
Status: Offline
Posts: 1272
Joined: 21 May 2013

User avatar
Dayvan Cowboy
Status: Offline
Posts: 1940
Joined: 21 Apr 2013
I would probably try some. The last trip almost 10y ago changed my life. Not sure about this turn in to some nightmare tho
Image

User avatar
Dayvan Cowboy
Status: Offline
Posts: 1201
Joined: 23 Aug 2017
Location: planet daz
Whenever things feel like they're going up, Eris laughs in my face. I'm too paranoid to enjoy the holiday season, which unfortunately also includes my birthday.
Image
In here is a tragedy, art thou player or audience?
Be as it may, the end doth remain:
all go on only toward death.
...
There is nothing which cannot become a puppet of fate
or an onlooker, peering into the cage.

User avatar
Sherbet Head
Status: Offline
Posts: 569
Joined: 19 Sep 2022
Location: USA
arvy wrote:I would probably try some. The last trip almost 10y ago changed my life. Not sure about this turn in to some nightmare tho


It works. I wouldn't be here sharing these moments with you all if shrooms hadn't come in my life, don't know where I'd be (another robot wandering around, for sure). They're gentle, rather nice. They say that shrooms is Lord of the Rings and that acid is Star Wars. :lol:

I spoke to my therapist a little bit about psilocybin-therapy.... something interesting I will bring up is that there's a nature retreat that war veterans and sexual-abuse survivors will all go on, both men and women. Rather simple stuff, no technology, camp in the woods for two weeks with a small group of like-minded people, try to enjoy the natural landscapes.
What kept consistently popping up in all of these retreats is that all of these people would experience a moment of pure 'awe', be it looking at the ecology or the biology in the environment. What's fascinating about that is that 'awe' is in the same part of our brain as 'fear' (we even make the same exact face, too. People who look awed also look terrified lol!)

After reaching that 'awe', many patients reported feeling more at peace, generally less hard on themselves altogether. It varies, the 'awe' would stay with some rather than others (for example, if the traumatic experience occurred earlier in life, then the patients would report less of an effect due to their brain having to develop around the abnormal self-preservation. [They basically grow up thinking Excitement = Danger, and Danger = Excitement. Very dangerous if left unchecked. Gotta love our self-preservation. :x ] But they do report an effect nonetheless).

I guess what I'm trying to say is that shrooms are awesome, they'll help you reach that moment of awe and appreciation, but it isn't always necessary. Psychedelics are one big mirror, every 'vision' or 'epiphany' you achieve is something you've probably already had/knew for a while. It's always possible to be 'enlightened', with or without psilocybin or LSD. Seriously want to know the secret? Quit trying to be human, quite trying to be a robot or a computer, quit trying to be "something". You're just another animal roaming the planet with all the rest of them. Find your own 'awe'-inducing moments. They are truly everywhere if you stop for five seconds and just take them in.

Spoiler: show
Sorry if I sound like a hippie :shock:

User avatar
Dayvan Cowboy
Status: Offline
Posts: 2032
Joined: 12 Aug 2021
Location: North Yorkshire, UK
Wishing someone on here well. :)
Image

User avatar
Dayvan Cowboy
Status: Offline
Posts: 1201
Joined: 23 Aug 2017
Location: planet daz
Orbited insanitarium wrote:Wishing someone on here well. :)
How thoughtful of you, I also hope they're doing well.

Image
Image
In here is a tragedy, art thou player or audience?
Be as it may, the end doth remain:
all go on only toward death.
...
There is nothing which cannot become a puppet of fate
or an onlooker, peering into the cage.

User avatar
Dayvan Cowboy
Status: Offline
Posts: 1201
Joined: 23 Aug 2017
Location: planet daz
Some people say they can't listen to certain music because it reminds them of bad memories.

It must be nice to have memories.
Image
In here is a tragedy, art thou player or audience?
Be as it may, the end doth remain:
all go on only toward death.
...
There is nothing which cannot become a puppet of fate
or an onlooker, peering into the cage.

User avatar
Dayvan Cowboy
Status: Offline
Posts: 1940
Joined: 21 Apr 2013
Not only music, many other things like places, food, etc.
Deppresion is a some sort of saving mechanism, I think emotional pane is much worse, tho during the depression you completely lack motivation, while in pain you will do everything to reduce the pain.
Image

User avatar
Sherbet Head
Status: Offline
Posts: 569
Joined: 19 Sep 2022
Location: USA
We'll do anything for relief.
Search for solutions when you're aching, my friends. Not relief.

User avatar
Dayvan Cowboy
Status: Offline
Posts: 1201
Joined: 23 Aug 2017
Location: planet daz
/I didn't post here.
Image
In here is a tragedy, art thou player or audience?
Be as it may, the end doth remain:
all go on only toward death.
...
There is nothing which cannot become a puppet of fate
or an onlooker, peering into the cage.

User avatar
Dayvan Cowboy
Status: Offline
Posts: 2032
Joined: 12 Aug 2021
Location: North Yorkshire, UK
rodox_head wrote:/I didn't post here.


The 'I' which is you is very important to me. I've come to say I have no element of understanding from your point of view but if you feel like screaming in this darkness, reading this thread possibly beforehand only fuels the fire for the worse.

I wish to get in touch with you but I always hope the interaction is not destined to come from one. You type louder than words and I want to give you a fucking hug.
Image

User avatar
Dayvan Cowboy
Status: Offline
Posts: 2032
Joined: 12 Aug 2021
Location: North Yorkshire, UK
I think it's getting worse.
Image

PreviousNext

Return to The Playground

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests