Is the Boccer religious?

[Aesthetics]

I sometimes really wish there wasn't any religion at all. I just watched Elizabeth - The Golden Age, and like with the first movie I was in a white rage to see what people do to people with different "mindsets". All this bloodshedding, over and over again, because people believe in other things. It's so disgusting!

It makes me feel so powerlessness because I know this will continue till the end of days and I can't do a single thing about it.

[Skytree]

I am right there with you man, everything seems to make complete sense when I'm out there.

Its what keeps me going, actually.

Good thing we live where we do. (:

I'm heading over to Willow River this coming Sunday. Really look forward to it...looks like summer and fall have come and gone already, since I was there last.

Cole mentioned you guys were headed to the North Shore...are you back already, or going later? Hope it is/was a great trip man. I really wish I could have made it up there this year!

Ah Willow River, excellent choice man.

We're headin' up on Thursday sometime around noon or one, and comin back sometime Friday.. Its going to be a blast!

Have an excellent time man! I would have liked to come myself, but I'm stuck at a desk Mon-Fri. ):

[Guido]

I sometimes really wish there wasn't any religion at all. I just watched Elizabeth - The Golden Age, and like with the first movie I was in a white rage to see what people do to people with different "mindsets". All this bloodshedding, over and over again, because people believe in other things. It's so disgusting!

It makes me feel so powerlessness because I know this will continue till the end of days and I can't do a single thing about it.

You can debate about whether there wouldn't be any war if there wasn't religion. People will always find arguments to justify their desires and actions.

I personally believe that religion can be something very good. A recurring phenomena in mass media nowdays is that people are implicitly or explicitly led to believe that religion causes a lot of trouble in the world, but if I forget the hysteria and media indoctrination for a minute and just look at the people around me, my mom, grandma, friends who are Christian - they all seem more balanced than some people who say they're atheist and who tried to be bold enough to set their own points of reference in life. I believe that a substantial part of the population of the world (especially the western world) needs some kind of externally-set boundaries in life (note that we have this at this moment in the form of the law, police and politics). I invite anyone who has studied anarchism to prove me wrong.

I think that persons who state that they don't believe in a God simply because they don´t see one are often very naive. Moreover a lot of atheists I meet seem to be conditioned by our current culture as I said earlier to believe that there is no God; had they lived a few hunderd years ago they would have probably been outspoken religious people. Atheists also often have the tendency to hate and attack people who believe in God and fiercely defend their own standpoints. In a way these people have the exact same characteristics as the stereotype image of what they don´t want to be - a religious person. Note that I'm not discussing all atheists, but a substantial amount of outspoken non-believers (atheists) that I have met seem to be this way.

It is also important to note that even if all information in the Bible and Qur'an is false, this doesn't prove anything about the existence of a God.

I think if you want to create a reliable and unbiased impression of what religion is and what the arguments and counter-arguments for atheism and agnosticism exist, it's sensible to take a course in philosophy and read both the Bible and The God Delusion.

The label that comes closest to my vision on this matter is agnosticism. I believe we simply cannot know whether a supernatural creator exists. Within one world it is impossible to discover what is in the world metaphorically encapsulating it. There have been people who have stated that every world has its metalevel (I forgot who.. Godel?) and this actually could make one lean towards some form of religion. But then again, nothing may be what it seems to be in this world (this is why Descartes discovered the cogito-ergo-sum; which suggests that the only certainty we have is that we exist), so basically I continue to stay agnostic.

[Chuck Beckles]

I don't believe in supernatural things, and find it humorous that other people do.

[dono]

I don't believe in supernatural things, and find it humorous that other people do.

Hmm... I find this comment very interesting. What about those that have experienced supernatural events?

For instance I have personally been in the heart of Africa as well as Jamaica around very very evil witchdoctors, and just plain evil, and have personally experienced very scary and evil supernatural events. Are you saying I went temporarily psychotic and/or had complete ego shredding delusions from a perfectly lucid and alert consciousness in this particular moment in time?

I believe our very existence is spiritual down to the core of our being from personal experience.

EDIT: I mean, I can't help the things I have seen, heard and felt, and I would be a complete idiot to not believe in a spiritual world with supernatural events after the stuff I have been through. Picture a movie like the exorcist... then picture being there, first hand... I mean really think about it. You are THERE and it's HAPPENING. What do you do or think when you're completely sane, and you hear her speak to you with 5 voices clear as day and she breaks her neck bones twisting her head around. I mean, really, just pretend for a second that you believed what you just saw. Could you at that point deny that something supernatural just happened?

[turquoise70]

I believe that a substantial part of the population of the world (especially the western world) needs some kind of externally-set boundaries in life (note that we have this at this moment in the form of the law, police and politics). I invite anyone who has studied anarchism to prove me wrong.

It's not something that needs proving right or wrong. Most Anarchists don't have the same view as Marxists or whoever else, ie. We must convert the world to our thinking; everyone should be an Anarchist. Many people apparently CAN'T live their lives without some coercive force keeping them from strangling their neighbor; to deny that would be to deny millions of crimes every day. Some of us apparently can. We stick together and do what we can. Converting the unbeliever is a matter of "try it and see if it works for you", not "listen to historical/philosophical argument A, B, or C and be convinced" or "here's a sword in your neck, do what I say" like many other philosophies. Any anarchist who's thought it through for five minutes can tell you there's something wrong with the idea of a "hostile/coercive anarchist takeover" given the ideology's heavy reliance on non-coercion. Anyway, arguing that someone like me needs the police to keep me from raping the first woman I manage to overpower just as much as some roided-up basket case, is like arguing that we all need billboard and banner ads or else nobody would ever desire a good or service. Some of us have just a bare threshold minimum of maturity/wisdom to realize what's good for us without having to learn the hard way every time.

In any case, you won't meet many anarchists who get beyond the Break Stuff Woohoo Hullaballoo of street action, and profess to think Anarchism is some political theory you can just apply after occupying City Hall and declaring a revolution. It don't work that way. By the way, I don't self-identify as an Anarchist or organize my beliefs that way, but i do believe a lot of the same things many Anarchists do about law, coercion, human behavior, and sociology.

If what you're saying, though, is "people need an ideology to keep them from behaving like pissed off chipanzees" well... maybe, maybe not. I think that, actually, our disposition is more important than our ideology in mitigating behavior. I am a nonviolent (by nature, not by ideology; I have a very low threshold for violence and very little violent impulse is what i mean) nonreligious person who does not actively subscribe to any well-documented ideology of spirituality or of physics or metaphysics in general, not to mention no major, well-attended theory of ethics or personal behavior. i do as my heart commands, and it rarely gets me into trouble. I'm just a very safe person. I don't make the kind of shitty decisions that a concrete ideology (including secular, scientific ones here too) or religion or system of law seeks to prevent the most. I make embarassing decisions, but they only ever hurt or shame myself. In short, I'm a totally unimpressive, nearly-inert doofus. The only harm I do is by merely living my toxic, high-energy suburban life which, by a process I don't profess to understand but is very real nonetheless, is slowly killing Africans and other brown people I've never met, and also now Mother Nature, so I hear!

[Earthbound]

oh god that makes all life look pointless

I think it depends on how you look at it
He's saying that there's no point living if you spend a life lived in fear

Somehow I'm feeling you.

Killing the good guys, yeah, that's true.
Let's face it, we killed the best of em all... --> Jesus.

[s7409651]

oh god that makes all life look pointless

I think it depends on how you look at it
He's saying that there's no point living if you spend a life lived in fear

Somehow I'm feeling you.

Killing the good guys, yeah, that's true.
Let's face it, we killed the best of em all... --> Jesus.

We killed Jesus, John Lennon, JFK, Ghandi,
..and somehow Robert Mugabe, George Bush, and Ricky Martin are allowed to roam free!

[saob]

Religion might fade out over (a very long) time if people starts to really think for themselves.

[rik0000]

Religion might fade out over (a very long) time if people starts to really think for themselves.

Probably just as atheism, I think with only thinking one can only uphold agnosticism, as Guido perfectly spelled out (nice post btw).

That being said, I guess I'm not only about the thinking. Religion and me is somewhat the same as Dono and Earthbound.

[Earthbound]

Religion might fade out over (a very long) time if people starts to really think for themselves.

So when is one thinking for themselve?
I guess, everything, every thought can be connected to something that doesn't belong to you in the first place.
So yeah, I agree with Rik.

[dono]

Thinking for myself has ultimately enabled me to embrace what I believe. That's a good thing.

[Green Pylon]

[Chuck Beckles]

I don't believe in supernatural things, and find it humorous that other people do.

Hmm... I find this comment very interesting. What about those that have experienced supernatural events?

For instance I have personally been in the heart of Africa as well as Jamaica around very very evil witchdoctors, and just plain evil, and have personally experienced very scary and evil supernatural events. Are you saying I went temporarily psychotic and/or had complete ego shredding delusions from a perfectly lucid and alert consciousness in this particular moment in time?

I believe our very existence is spiritual down to the core of our being from personal experience.

EDIT: I mean, I can't help the things I have seen, heard and felt, and I would be a complete idiot to not believe in a spiritual world with supernatural events after the stuff I have been through. Picture a movie like the exorcist... then picture being there, first hand... I mean really think about it. You are THERE and it's HAPPENING. What do you do or think when you're completely sane, and you hear her speak to you with 5 voices clear as day and she breaks her neck bones twisting her head around. I mean, really, just pretend for a second that you believed what you just saw. Could you at that point deny that something supernatural just happened?

Our preconceived notions of the world color everything we experience. If I believe something, I'm going to interpret everything I see in light of that belief.

The question is: were you a skeptic at one point, but were converted by these supernatural experiences? Or were you a spiritual person before and these experiences only strengthened your beliefs?

[88marquis]

I am right there with you man, everything seems to make complete sense when I'm out there.

Its what keeps me going, actually.

Good thing we live where we do. (:

I'm heading over to Willow River this coming Sunday. Really look forward to it...looks like summer and fall have come and gone already, since I was there last.

Cole mentioned you guys were headed to the North Shore...are you back already, or going later? Hope it is/was a great trip man. I really wish I could have made it up there this year!

Ah Willow River, excellent choice man.

We're headin' up on Thursday sometime around noon or one, and comin back sometime Friday.. Its going to be a blast!

Have an excellent time man! I would have liked to come myself, but I'm stuck at a desk Mon-Fri. ):

Yeah man I feel ya, work shmurk!

We're keeping an eye on the weather but it doesn't look too welcoming, so we'll have to figure out another time. We should see if we can work something out and get together soon though.. You, Cole, and myself! I'm thinking jam session, I can bring my acoustic and the micro.

What do you think man?

[dono]

The question is: were you a skeptic at one point, but were converted by these supernatural experiences? Or were you a spiritual person before and these experiences only strengthened your beliefs?

I was spiritually open, but living as an atheist would. It doesn't matter in all reality though. There are some things that physics and science cannot explain no matter how much you try to stretch them, because they are simply put, supernatural.

And as I said before...

Thinking for myself has ultimately enabled me to embrace what I believe. That's a good thing.

[Skytree]

I am right there with you man, everything seems to make complete sense when I'm out there.

Its what keeps me going, actually.

Good thing we live where we do. (:

I'm heading over to Willow River this coming Sunday. Really look forward to it...looks like summer and fall have come and gone already, since I was there last.

Cole mentioned you guys were headed to the North Shore...are you back already, or going later? Hope it is/was a great trip man. I really wish I could have made it up there this year!

Ah Willow River, excellent choice man.

We're headin' up on Thursday sometime around noon or one, and comin back sometime Friday.. Its going to be a blast!

Have an excellent time man! I would have liked to come myself, but I'm stuck at a desk Mon-Fri. ):

Yeah man I feel ya, work shmurk!

We're keeping an eye on the weather but it doesn't look too welcoming, so we'll have to figure out another time. We should see if we can work something out and get together soon though.. You, Cole, and myself! I'm thinking jam session, I can bring my acoustic and the micro.

What do you think man?

I'm always down Pete, evenings and weekends. (:

On topic, religion is myth mixed with spirituality, both of which exist independently of religion, and both of which are necessary for human societies. For this reason, I strongly doubt religion will ever disappear entirely, as its constituent pieces will always be floating around.

Additionally, religion itself is not inherently destructive or evil. It seems to me that most of the grievances some have against religion are directed primarily at the Mosaic religions (Islam, Christianity, Judaism), which, although extremely popular and influential, are a small subset of the belief structures humanity has held over the eons.

Taoists and Buddhists typically keep to themselves, and you don't see the Dakota tribe bombing Israel.

[rik0000]

I don't believe in supernatural things, and find it humorous that other people do.

Hmm... I find this comment very interesting. What about those that have experienced supernatural events?

For instance I have personally been in the heart of Africa as well as Jamaica around very very evil witchdoctors, and just plain evil, and have personally experienced very scary and evil supernatural events. Are you saying I went temporarily psychotic and/or had complete ego shredding delusions from a perfectly lucid and alert consciousness in this particular moment in time?

I believe our very existence is spiritual down to the core of our being from personal experience.

EDIT: I mean, I can't help the things I have seen, heard and felt, and I would be a complete idiot to not believe in a spiritual world with supernatural events after the stuff I have been through. Picture a movie like the exorcist... then picture being there, first hand... I mean really think about it. You are THERE and it's HAPPENING. What do you do or think when you're completely sane, and you hear her speak to you with 5 voices clear as day and she breaks her neck bones twisting her head around. I mean, really, just pretend for a second that you believed what you just saw. Could you at that point deny that something supernatural just happened?

Our preconceived notions of the world color everything we experience. If I believe something, I'm going to interpret everything I see in light of that belief.

The question is: were you a skeptic at one point, but were converted by these supernatural experiences? Or were you a spiritual person before and these experiences only strengthened your beliefs?

Well your argument goes both ways. I don't think it's possible to perceive anything colorless. Yes indeed, my christian point of view is quite obvious, but pure objectivity doesn't exist. Atheism is just the same as any religion. If there's a God, it would be possible to proof (although very hard and I can't). But if there's no God, there's no way one can proof it. So I guess the atheist are the real believers
Agnostics seem to be the only ones who really care for the scientific approach.

[Green Pylon]

Well your argument goes both ways. I don't think it's possible to perceive anything colorless. Yes indeed, my christian point of view is quite obvious, but pure objectivity doesn't exist. Atheism is just the same as any religion. If there's a God, it would be possible to proof (although very hard and I can't). But if there's no God, there's no way one can proof it. So I guess the atheist are the real believers
Agnostics seem to be the only ones who really care for the scientific approach.

Only is a question of humility, if you believe that you know everything or, considering the human being as an imperfect creature cannot understand the entire reality.

duality could be a simple way for an expanding mind of one itself.

[rik0000]

Only is a question of humility, if you believe that you know everything or, considering the human being as an imperfect creature cannot understand the entire reality.

duality could be a simple way for an expanding mind of one itself.

Don't know whether I get your question completely and whether it's directed in general or to me (English is not my mothertongue, might have something to do with that).

I absolutely don't believe I know everything, hope not my previous post made that suggestion. Absolutely wasn't meant that way, don't want to be the religious zealot of twoism . Scientist are still working on understanding reality and that's only on the physical part, so would be quite arrogant to say I know it all. Someone said something like: "The more we know, the less we understand". I couldn't agree more......

You say an imperfect creature cannot understand everything, can a perfect creature understand the entire reality? (and what is a perfect creature?)