Honest Chemtrail Discourse

[mechanismj]

Chemtrails really aren't a conspiracy anymore since this was released:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2002 ... calscience

The U.S. Government does it to control the Weather, which is connected to HAARP:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Frequ ... ch_Program

First link seems to be to do with the 60s and 70s, predating chemtrails as the "people misunderstanding what contrails are" phenomenon. Second link doesn't seem to be chemtrail related at all.

Look, people who don't understand science will always come up with daft ideas for things that are easily explainable. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c6HsiixFS8 Especially if they have a latent distrust of big-s Science as a force for governments to spread a line of thinking, uneducated, or (bless 'em) if they're off their Haldol.

Meanwhile, tangibly provable Bad Shit is happening in and to the world that people can actually do something about. I'm not an apologist for governments being complicit in and directly involved in doing Bad Shit, and it's not like governments necessarily have a solid understanding of science either, it's perfectly possible for them to spin figures to try and prove a point (that's why you have peer review and meta-analysis) but if you throw science out the window completely and go chasing rainbows you solve nothing.

That lady is obviously grilling on mushrooms and is seeing rainbows everywhere.

But seriously, the fact that there are people out there who are this fucking stupid should tell you something about the state of this country.

[mechanismj]

Also,

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 24501.html

[polar sky]

Second link doesn't seem to be chemtrail related at all.

Sorry, here is some more info:

Various versions of the chemtrail conspiracy theory have circulated through Internet websites and radio programs. In some of the accounts, the chemicals are described as barium and aluminum salts, polymer fibers, thorium, or silicon carbide. In other accounts it is alleged the skies are being seeded with electrically conductive materials as part of a massive electromagnetic superweapons program based around the High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program (HAARP).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtrail_ ... y#Overview

Not saying I believe 100% of it but, how can YOU personally know for sure.

[zeitgeist]

Oh c'mon--that's quite a strawman to point to sprinkler rainbow lady. i don't think anyone here is that bat shit.

[mechanismj]

Speaking of small fibers potentially being sprayed into the atmosphere, check out this little curiosity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgellons

[mechanismj]

Oh c'mon--that's quite a strawman to point to sprinkler rainbow lady. i don't think anyone here is that bat shit.

AGREED!

MrMessiah, are you a skeptic?

[Negamuse]

Second link doesn't seem to be chemtrail related at all.

Sorry, here is some more info:

Various versions of the chemtrail conspiracy theory have circulated through Internet websites and radio programs. In some of the accounts, the chemicals are described as barium and aluminum salts, polymer fibers, thorium, or silicon carbide. In other accounts it is alleged the skies are being seeded with electrically conductive materials as part of a massive electromagnetic superweapons program based around the High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program (HAARP).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtrail_ ... y#Overview

Not saying I believe 100% of it but, how can YOU personally know for sure.

Well, I'd start by saying, "barium and aluminum salts, polymer fibers, thorium, or silicon carbide." these are very specific, and different things. Who is making the claim for each of them, and how do they get their data (are they taking samples at high altitude, or is it falling down where they can find it, or what?) Or are they just plucking materials out of thin air?

I'd follow up with has anyone got evidence of a chemtrail occuring where it wasn't explainable by normal aeroplane traffic? This data is freely available and so should be easy to correlate. Similarly, are there cases of popularly "confirmed" chemtrails that are provably just contrails.

I could ask what the mechanism of interaction is between HAARP and the chemtrails, and how that is supposed to work. What's the overarching purpose of any of it, were it to be true?

I probably wouldn't personally ask any of those things, mind you, as the simple explanation vastly overshadows the multiple conflicting, complicated, explanations of the chemtrail "believers", and in science you make a claim and the onus is on you to provide evidence rather than say "this is a thing, and that is a thing, and I bet this is what it is". If that evidence existed, I'm sure enough it would be more of a story than it is, and as someone not personally bothered by it I'm satisfied to a reasonable degree that it's bunk.

[Negamuse]

Oh c'mon--that's quite a strawman to point to sprinkler rainbow lady. i don't think anyone here is that bat shit.

AGREED!

MrMessiah, are you a skeptic?

I require a certain threshold of evidence to believe things; if that makes me a skeptic, sure.

[polar sky]

Second link doesn't seem to be chemtrail related at all.

Sorry, here is some more info:

Various versions of the chemtrail conspiracy theory have circulated through Internet websites and radio programs. In some of the accounts, the chemicals are described as barium and aluminum salts, polymer fibers, thorium, or silicon carbide. In other accounts it is alleged the skies are being seeded with electrically conductive materials as part of a massive electromagnetic superweapons program based around the High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program (HAARP).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtrail_ ... y#Overview

Not saying I believe 100% of it but, how can YOU personally know for sure.

Well, I'd start by saying, "barium and aluminum salts, polymer fibers, thorium, or silicon carbide." these are very specific, and different things. Who is making the claim for each of them, and how do they get their data (are they taking samples at high altitude, or is it falling down where they can find it, or what?) Or are they just plucking materials out of thin air?

I'd follow up with has anyone got evidence of a chemtrail occuring where it wasn't explainable by normal aeroplane traffic? This data is freely available and so should be easy to correlate. Similarly, are there cases of popularly "confirmed" chemtrails that are provably just contrails.

I could ask what the mechanism of interaction is between HAARP and the chemtrails, and how that is supposed to work. What's the overarching purpose of any of it, were it to be true?

I probably wouldn't personally ask any of those things, mind you, as the simple explanation vastly overshadows the multiple conflicting, complicated, explanations of the chemtrail "believers", and in science you make a claim and the onus is on you to provide evidence rather than say "this is a thing, and that is a thing, and I bet this is what it is". If that evidence existed, I'm sure enough it would be more of a story than it is, and as someone not personally bothered by it I'm satisfied to a reasonable degree that it's bunk.

For someone who isn't personally bothered by it, you sure do seem to have looked up a lot of it. Do you have a background in science?

[polar sky]

Here's another:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D7p2w9p8pM

Yes it pre-dates today, but what makes you think they're not doing it today? I mean this is the same government that conducted experiments under MK ULTRA on innocent citizens without their consent.

[Negamuse]

For someone who isn't personally bothered by it, you sure do seem to have looked up a lot of it. Do you have a background in science?

Well I have a CS degree, but *actual* science I'm just an interested layman. Asking for evidence for claims is basic scientific literacy really.