Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:50 pm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... n_Special/
Great documentary. Brain sufficiently melted.
Great documentary. Brain sufficiently melted.
Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:14 pm
The Friendly Stranger wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b019h7t0/Horizon_The_Hunt_for_Higgs_A_Horizon_Special/
Great documentary. Brain sufficiently melted.
Cheers! Will watch tomorrow. Jim Al-Khalili is superb!
Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:01 pm
Saw this today! OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG!
Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:13 pm
Just to be clear, they've found a particle consistent with the theoretical Higgs Boson, not necessarily the actual Higgs Boson as theorised.
This makes me so happy. Isn't amazing to see evidence that so many nationalities can work together to achieve great things and move us forward together as a human race? A little faith in humanity restored after the latest exchange rate fraud that's been dominating the news this week...
This makes me so happy. Isn't amazing to see evidence that so many nationalities can work together to achieve great things and move us forward together as a human race? A little faith in humanity restored after the latest exchange rate fraud that's been dominating the news this week...
Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:45 am
Yeah, they have found a new sub atomic particle consistent with mathematic predictions. Still, being pedantic aside, absolutely incredible!
The amount of money going into science spending needs to be increased exponentially.
The amount of money going into science spending needs to be increased exponentially.
Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:30 pm
Cool.
So, will we eventually receive anything practical from this?
So, will we eventually receive anything practical from this?
Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:13 pm
what could be more practical than jokes on the internet about mass?
Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:29 pm
Cryabetes wrote:what could be more practical than jokes on the internet about mass?
Something that helps society?
Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:36 pm
Rodheh wrote:Cool.
So, will we eventually receive anything practical from this?
In a way, we already have. The scientific research required to build the machines to find the Higgs is stuff that wouldn't have been built otherwise, and can be used in other disciplines. Much like the space program: much more's come out of the science required to put a man on the moon than we've got out of the actual event which was mostly "to say we could".
On an abstract level, it fills in a gap in our current scientific understanding that we had to wave our hands over before and pretend it didn't exist (or at least, account for without really understanding why we had to).
In terms of actual applications of the Higgs field, who knows? Think back to when Maxwell's theories united magnetism and electricity and gave us the understanding of the electromagnetic spectrum. At the time, there was no way he could know that that would lead to radio, television and so on.
Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:20 pm
MrMessiah wrote:Rodheh wrote:Cool.
So, will we eventually receive anything practical from this?
In a way, we already have. The scientific research required to build the machines to find the Higgs is stuff that wouldn't have been built otherwise, and can be used in other disciplines. Much like the space program: much more's come out of the science required to put a man on the moon than we've got out of the actual event which was mostly "to say we could".
On an abstract level, it fills in a gap in our current scientific understanding that we had to wave our hands over before and pretend it didn't exist (or at least, account for without really understanding why we had to).
In terms of actual applications of the Higgs field, who knows? Think back to when Maxwell's theories united magnetism and electricity and gave us the understanding of the electromagnetic spectrum. At the time, there was no way he could know that that would lead to radio, television and so on.
So nobody knows as of yet? No theoretical technology that would have been made possible utilizing this sort of particle?
I don't really follow the discovery and application of these sort of things so that's why I'm inclined to ask.
Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:42 am
I don't know of one but I'm just a layman. I'm visiting CERN in a month though, so I'll get the chance to talk to some physicists when the partying's died down 
I did think initially, "well, if the Higgs gives mass to particles, if we can cancel it out, then wahey! We can make things weigh less". But apparently it doesn't work like that... the Higgs gives mass to subatomic particles but it's tiny... the actual mass of atoms is caused by something else (the energy holding the atom together, IIRC). So that idea's a bit like if I'm in a car and my passenger is talking, I could put my hand over their mouth to shut them up, but if the stereo's blasting it's not going to get any quieter.
So I don't know. I'm still having a bit of trouble thinking of this field that permeates the whole universe and certain things interact with it, giving them mass. Up until the other day, that was something we didn't know for sure existed, it was just a theory to balance one side of a mathematical equation and make the maths work. Just think about that, you're a physicist in your twenties and it looks for all the world like there's a mistake in the equations we use to describe how the universe works, and rather than change that you say "OK, maybe they're right, and there's this universal field...". Physicists everywhere disagree with you; you have one of the fathers of Quantum Physics, Werner Heisenberg, a nobel prize winner, come up to you and literally tell you "your theory's wrong and you don't understand physics". Flash forward 40 years and here we are today proving the guy right. Interesting times.
I did think initially, "well, if the Higgs gives mass to particles, if we can cancel it out, then wahey! We can make things weigh less". But apparently it doesn't work like that... the Higgs gives mass to subatomic particles but it's tiny... the actual mass of atoms is caused by something else (the energy holding the atom together, IIRC). So that idea's a bit like if I'm in a car and my passenger is talking, I could put my hand over their mouth to shut them up, but if the stereo's blasting it's not going to get any quieter.
So I don't know. I'm still having a bit of trouble thinking of this field that permeates the whole universe and certain things interact with it, giving them mass. Up until the other day, that was something we didn't know for sure existed, it was just a theory to balance one side of a mathematical equation and make the maths work. Just think about that, you're a physicist in your twenties and it looks for all the world like there's a mistake in the equations we use to describe how the universe works, and rather than change that you say "OK, maybe they're right, and there's this universal field...". Physicists everywhere disagree with you; you have one of the fathers of Quantum Physics, Werner Heisenberg, a nobel prize winner, come up to you and literally tell you "your theory's wrong and you don't understand physics". Flash forward 40 years and here we are today proving the guy right. Interesting times.
Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:39 am
Rodheh wrote:Cool.
So, will we eventually receive anything practical from this?
I'm not sure that particle physics is exactly about discovering something practical, science for a large part only exists to help understand and explain things. This is definitely the case with particle physics at least.
In any case, I have a theory that humans are eventually going to reach too far into the depths and accidentally rupture some kind of very fragile mechanism of the universe and everything will collapse.
Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:37 am
Similar to what someone said earlier, NASA has always been something of a "necessary evil". Sure, the outcome is mostly just "look what we did", but a lot of the discoveries and accidents that come along with it lead to many other beneficial things (applying new technology to old systems, etc.).
So sure, the end result is "cool. this thing happens." But, the means through which we arrived at that conclusion often provide a lot more than that pat on the back.
So sure, the end result is "cool. this thing happens." But, the means through which we arrived at that conclusion often provide a lot more than that pat on the back.
Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:27 am
MrMessiah wrote:I don't know of one but I'm just a layman. I'm visiting CERN in a month though, so I'll get the chance to talk to some physicists when the partying's died down
Jealous
Nice interview with the ever watchable Prof Brian Cox here
Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:22 pm
It fundamentally augments and opens huge passages in hundreds of theories. It will virtually re-write history, this is on par with Albert's papers on relativity or the discovery of CMB. The standard model of physics is confirmed if this discovery turns out to be what it is, which shows that the past 50 years of research has not been a goose chase.
It may not help society directly, but it certaintly exhibits the beauty of mans quest for greater understanding of why we are what we are and where we come from. It's also a milestone moment in the information age.
+ it's really awesome
++ it shuts the creationists up
It may not help society directly, but it certaintly exhibits the beauty of mans quest for greater understanding of why we are what we are and where we come from. It's also a milestone moment in the information age.
+ it's really awesome
++ it shuts the creationists up
Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:38 pm
fujee wrote:++ it shuts the creationists up
Oh, that that were true... https://twitter.com/DerpParticle
Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:52 pm
Still find it amusing and slightly sad that in 2012 we still have Creationists in the World. While quoting Bill Hicks is a really passé and teenage thing to do:
“You ever noticed how people who believe in Creationism look really unevolved? You ever noticed that? Eyes real close together, eyebrow ridges, big furry hands and feet. "I believe God created me in one day" Yeah, looks like He rushed it.”
“You ever noticed how people who believe in Creationism look really unevolved? You ever noticed that? Eyes real close together, eyebrow ridges, big furry hands and feet. "I believe God created me in one day" Yeah, looks like He rushed it.”
Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:04 pm
fujee wrote:++ it shuts the creationists up
NOW THAT's something VERY practical.
Also, if there were karma on this forum I'd have to upvote Mexicola's for mention of the Hicks bit.
Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:36 pm
Mexicola wrote:Still find it amusing and slightly sad that in 2012 we still have Creationists in the World. While quoting Bill Hicks is a really passé and teenage thing to do:
“You ever noticed how people who believe in Creationism look really unevolved? You ever noticed that? Eyes real close together, eyebrow ridges, big furry hands and feet. "I believe God created me in one day" Yeah, looks like He rushed it.”
Hey. Bill Hicks is awesome.
And I'm sure there will always be those kinds of people who hold on blindly to stupid traditions through out the existence of humanity.