there aren't any primitivists up here, are there?

[Username]

just curious

[Scatterbrainkida]

That's what she said....

[Username]

how about anyone into daniel quinn?

[Aesthetics]

excuse me for my ignorance, but whats a primitivists?

someone who is living without any technology or something?

[Username]

not necessarily. i don't live that way, but i still consider myself a primitivist because i advocate primitivism. primitivists basically recognize today's hierarchy has been here ever since we became civilized, see primitive people as inspirations for anarchy, and want to keep what we can from civilization without keeping division of labor and specialization. For more information, see A Primitivist Primer: what is anarcho-primitivism?

[Scatterbrainkida]

I just read "Ishmael" actually....it was for my Philosophy class....not a bad book but some of the religious stuff went way over my head since I had no religious upbringing whatsoever....

anyways, I admit to being a materialsitic person despite hating most of pop-culture....so I am definintely not stuck in a "Leaver" frame of mind...I believe "Takers" are in fact doing there part to contribute to the evolutionary cycle..but we are so advanced that no one else will catch up....

or something like that....I apologize for rambling...

[SallyBear]

OK so primitivism, I think I might eat like a primitivist.

Is there somewhere that helps to explain it for those of us slightly less intelligent? Or do i need to get my intelligent brain working and read about it properly?

[Username]

if you eat like a primitivist, the you might eat the paleolithic diet. here, i'll explain A Primitivist Primer by John Moore (http://www.eco-action.org/dt/primer.html) primitivists are anarchists who are against civilization. non-anarchists who are against civilization are Daniel Quinn fans. Primitivists want a society without hierarchy and to be in harmony with all living things. They don't really like to be labeled anything though. Back in the eighties, people began saying division of labor and specialization are inherent to civilization and that indigenous people lived mostly anarchistic lives that could inspire our creations.

as explained in http://www.greenanarchy.org/zine/pdf/GA14_back_to_basics.pdf, things basically went wrong when we started having food surpluses. that's when the concept of private property started, and egalitarianism began to erode. we began settling down for longer periods of time to store more property. we used to move around in one warm area during the cold seasons and one cool area during the warm seasons. with settlement, people began hording more than food. materialism started. sedentary living makes the population grow. nomadism was natural population control. they started having our overpopulation problems, crowding, fighting, and fatal battles, on a smaller scale.

we began domesticating plants in the middle east about 11,500 years ago. people began worshiping the soil, rain, seed, sun, etc. the practice of production started. from the seed to the product, it was their property as well as the earth that had to be protected.

the way we got our food determined the way we related to each other. hunter-gatherers had the most ideal relationships. there was no bureaucracy. with settlement came horticulture. horticulturists may have still done some hunting, gathering, and fishing. warfare was a consequence of sedentary living since settlements foster population growth. some horticulturists had ranks of chiefs. specialization rose. the shaman became powerful. distrust got on the rise. certain roles became institutionalized, and society became patriarchal because they needed someone to inherit the property.

those who domesticated animals are called pastoralists. since they migrated seasonally for grazing land and traded goods from one society to the next, they became the first merchants. they were mainly hierarchies of chiefs and common people. they were somewhat more patriarchal since they had somewhat more inheritance, but they still didn't have governments.

horticulturists who began using fertilizers, plows, irrigation, and the like are known as intensive agriculturists. barbarian empires developed with intensive agriculture. today, we have industrial agriculture, which uses large, complex machines to feed an ultra-stratified society.

surplus is an unsustainable thing, and lots of people are predicting the collapse of this civilization. that's what civilizations have always done, and i imagine that's what they'll always do. this journal entry has a graphical representation of this principle. this civilized life is a brief and recent period in our history. for a lot longer period of time, we have been wild animals who enjoyed life with little work, disease, sickness, war, crime, etc.

[SallyBear]

well basically my dad did the whole Atkins thing a couple of years ago and we basically lost a lot of the refined sugars and processed foods in the house. Yeah sure he lost weight but It made a more impressive change in me.... basically I could only describe it as returning to cave man eating habits if that makes sense.

I only really ate, meat, fish, non-starchy/non-root vegetables, berrys, water (no other liquids) and eggs.

My skin reversed in age, my hair was like one of those adverts for some amazing hair product, I was never hungry, i was never tired except at bedtime, and i jumped out of bed every day as if given an electric shock.

I came to the understanding that i was taking my body back to the foods it was designed to process and use for fuel and after doing this for quite some time i was in fantastic shape and mentally alot more happy and on top of things in my life.

Unfortunately I cant keep it up all the time as it doesnt suit the other 5 people in my household and i cannot afford to buy just for me.

But i really felt at one with the food in my body and felt i had unlocked the key to resolving depressive incidences and tiredness.

I now have jsut accquired an allotment off the local council and once I have learned to grow some useful stuff i will be making it a massive part of mine and my daugthers life.

I dont know how she will cope as the influences of school friends and other peers would probably not help but at least at home she would eat simple.

Didn't know there was a name to it, I was joking when i said i ate primitviley, didnt realise i actually was

[Username]

that's good news. i'm sorry you can't keep up the Atkins diet. i hope you get to grow that food.

[dealer]

username...

then what is the ultimate goal of primitivism?

describe to me a primitivist utopia.

a.

[Wed May 18, 2005 12:26 am]

Strictly speaking, there is no such thing as anarcho-primitivism or anarcho-primitivists. Fredy Perlman, a major voice in this current, once said, "The only -ist name I respond to is "cellist".' Individuals associated with this current do not wish to be adherents of an ideology, merely people who seek to become free individuals in free communities in harmony with one another and with the biosphere, and may therefore refuse to be limited by the term 'anarcho-primitivist' or any other ideological tagging. At best, then, anarcho-primitivism is a convenient label used to characterise diverse individuals with a common project: the abolition of all power relations - e.g., structures of control, coercion, domination, and exploitation - and the creation of a form of community that excludes all such relations.

the ultimate goals are the end of alienation, much less work, equality, health, happiness, community

[nlogax]

great topic!

[steve-o]

I do agree with this approach to living. I haved lived with in a small community and know that that life is more dignified, gentle and inspiring. So, I'm with ya.

[silo flame]

daniel quinn is great

[steeldancer-x]

Interesting thread.