Is the Boccer religious?

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Earthbound wrote:
portiss wrote:Oh and Earthbound, ur actually throwing in a line of a dutch comedian called Hans Teeuwen. Only he says; That religious people think they have a monopoly on the truth.


Duh, I know that. And that's exactly my point. You atheists and agnostics aren't any better. You do the same thing which religious people are accused from: preaching a theory, with a strong believe in thinking you're right. I hate that, I hate those people. Single minded wankers!


Couldn't agree more....!

It feels really bad to fight for my own freedom on an forum like this. Do people ever look at themselves whether they meet the standards they judge others on? So far the religious people seem to be the ones that don't judge.

Hmmmm... wait.. shouldn't that be the other way around? Portiss, meat like product, chuck beckles, tekmosis, you're taking my religious rights!!!! I should be the one being judgemental!! (end of cynical mode...)
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rik0000 wrote:
Earthbound wrote:
portiss wrote:Oh and Earthbound, ur actually throwing in a line of a dutch comedian called Hans Teeuwen. Only he says; That religious people think they have a monopoly on the truth.


Duh, I know that. And that's exactly my point. You atheists and agnostics aren't any better. You do the same thing which religious people are accused from: preaching a theory, with a strong believe in thinking you're right. I hate that, I hate those people. Single minded wankers!


Couldn't agree more....!

It feels really bad to fight for my own freedom on an forum like this. Do people ever look at themselves whether they meet the standards they judge others on? So far the religious people seem to be the ones that don't judge.

Hmmmm... wait.. shouldn't that be the other way around? Portiss, meat like product, chuck beckles, tekmosis, you're taking my religious rights!!!! I should be the one being judgemental!! (end of cynical mode...)


Lolz. I'm feeling yah Rik.

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Oh my.

Earth and Rik, I am glad there are some people here in favor PURE religious freedom.

Tek, this is sort of for you. I'm sorry to single you out like this, but your statement about "Christians being ignorant" or whatever you said stuck with me a little bit.

Bottom line is, if you think I am ignorant Tek, for being a Christian, then it seems you have a problem. Why? Because, you will be the one sitting there judging me for my beliefs, based on what you have previously experienced wether or not it is or is not the truth. And you will take your beliefs as fact, throwing my intelligence out the door without regard.... because I am a Christian. That goes beyond ignorant my friend.

How can you judge me without knowing who I am. You don't know what my life is like, what I do every day, what my job is, who my wife and family are. How can you put a blanket on my faith and call me ignorant for having faith in something that you cannot prove, or disprove?

I would search your heart man, because I guarantee you that you believe in things, and have faith in things that you cannot prove or disprove either. The evolution THEORY for example. I'm not judging you for that.

I'm just saying dude, you're young, you have a lot of growing up to do. I'm young too, most of us are, but everyone is in a different spot man.

Just in case you wanted to "get to know me" a little: I was raised in the church. I started supporting myself early on in highschool, I am extremely intelligent, I graduated highschool early and started working for a software programming company, and developing my own software packages, I then got in a little trouble with the law for hacking some state and govt servers, I then became a drug addict and went through a lot of bad stuff. I turned my life back around, I moved to colorado I met my wife, I continue to do software programming. My wife and I are looking to move soon. <-- Now that "you know me a little", maybe you wont judge me as an ignorant Christian without regard.
Scott

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dono wrote:Oh my.

Earth and Rik, I am glad there are some people here in favor PURE religious freedom.

Tek, this is sort of for you. I'm sorry to single you out like this, but your statement about "Christians being ignorant" or whatever you said stuck with me a little bit.

Bottom line is, if you think I am ignorant Tek, for being a Christian, then it seems you have a problem. Why? Because, you will be the one sitting there judging me for my beliefs, based on what you have previously experienced wether or not it is or is not the truth. And you will take your beliefs as fact, throwing my intelligence out the door without regard.... because I am a Christian. That goes beyond ignorant my friend.

How can you judge me without knowing who I am. You don't know what my life is like, what I do every day, what my job is, who my wife and family are. How can you put a blanket on my faith and call me ignorant for having faith in something that you cannot prove, or disprove?

I would search your heart man, because I guarantee you that you believe in things, and have faith in things that you cannot prove or disprove either. The evolution THEORY for example. I'm not judging you for that.

I'm just saying dude, you're young, you have a lot of growing up to do. I'm young too, most of us are, but everyone is in a different spot man.

Just in case you wanted to "get to know me" a little: I was raised in the church. I started supporting myself early on in highschool, I am extremely intelligent, I graduated highschool early and started working for a software programming company, and developing my own software packages, I then got in a little trouble with the law for hacking some state and govt servers, I then became a drug addict and went through a lot of bad stuff. I turned my life back around, I moved to colorado I met my wife, I continue to do software programming. My wife and I are looking to move soon. <-- Now that "you know me a little", maybe you wont judge me as an ignorant Christian without regard.


Thanks Dono!
That was refreshing.
I hope everybody here reads it, and understands what you're trying to say.
You're a cool dude.

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Earthbound wrote:
dono wrote:Oh my.

Earth and Rik, I am glad there are some people here in favor PURE religious freedom.

Tek, this is sort of for you. I'm sorry to single you out like this, but your statement about "Christians being ignorant" or whatever you said stuck with me a little bit.

Bottom line is, if you think I am ignorant Tek, for being a Christian, then it seems you have a problem. Why? Because, you will be the one sitting there judging me for my beliefs, based on what you have previously experienced wether or not it is or is not the truth. And you will take your beliefs as fact, throwing my intelligence out the door without regard.... because I am a Christian. That goes beyond ignorant my friend.

How can you judge me without knowing who I am. You don't know what my life is like, what I do every day, what my job is, who my wife and family are. How can you put a blanket on my faith and call me ignorant for having faith in something that you cannot prove, or disprove?

I would search your heart man, because I guarantee you that you believe in things, and have faith in things that you cannot prove or disprove either. The evolution THEORY for example. I'm not judging you for that.

I'm just saying dude, you're young, you have a lot of growing up to do. I'm young too, most of us are, but everyone is in a different spot man.

Just in case you wanted to "get to know me" a little: I was raised in the church. I started supporting myself early on in highschool, I am extremely intelligent, I graduated highschool early and started working for a software programming company, and developing my own software packages, I then got in a little trouble with the law for hacking some state and govt servers, I then became a drug addict and went through a lot of bad stuff. I turned my life back around, I moved to colorado I met my wife, I continue to do software programming. My wife and I are looking to move soon. <-- Now that "you know me a little", maybe you wont judge me as an ignorant Christian without regard.


Thanks Dono!
That was refreshing.
I hope everybody here reads it, and understands what you're trying to say.
You're a cool dude.


Second that....

And maybe we can start a bible study group with the three of us (just kidding :wink:).
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Earthbound wrote:
meat like product wrote:[ If we ever want to see any more progress as a species we have to UNITE and stop this virus.


This is some sick shit dude.
You proclaim to know it all, but in truth you're just as ignorant as any other human being. What gives you the right to talk like this? What if a religious person talks about infidel morons, and about stopping the non-believer virus, yeah, then you would be mad as hell, wouldn't you?

I never said religious people are perfect. Those muslim terrorists are just following orders, using a religion to justify their hatred. But really, that has nothing to do with religion.
It's like when I'll kill another religious human being, and say it was written by Darwin to do so, you would say I'm crazy.. You cannot condemn a complete religion just by a single man action. The easy way is to condemn it, yes, but it's not right, and deep down you know it.


What the hell are you talking about? I never claimed to know it all. Unlike religious fanatics I'm the one capable of admitting I know nothing about the "supernatural" which is why I BELIEVE IN NOTHING. And as a result of my lack of belief I don't let millenia old religious books conduct my life. I, as well as all of you have a pretty good understanding of what is best for one and all and if you would actually read these "holy" books you would see religion is not it and secular morality is all we need to grow as a civilization.

"I never said religious people are perfect. Those muslim terrorists are just following orders, using a religion to justify their hatred. But really, that has nothing to do with religion."

You should read the Koran. They're doing exactly what they're told to do. Thankfully most Christians ignore leviticus, deuteronomy, and the rest of the bible that promotes violence, murder, oppression, homocide, infanticide, slavery, bigotry, racism, etc, etc, etc so Christians aren't really a threat as they have been in the past. Besides the racists, homophobes, anti-free speech, anti-science, anti-medicine, anti-everything that isn't "Christian".
-Hunter

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dono wrote:Oh my.

Earth and Rik, I am glad there are some people here in favor PURE religious freedom.

Tek, this is sort of for you. I'm sorry to single you out like this, but your statement about "Christians being ignorant" or whatever you said stuck with me a little bit.

Bottom line is, if you think I am ignorant Tek, for being a Christian, then it seems you have a problem. Why? Because, you will be the one sitting there judging me for my beliefs, based on what you have previously experienced wether or not it is or is not the truth. And you will take your beliefs as fact, throwing my intelligence out the door without regard.... because I am a Christian. That goes beyond ignorant my friend.

How can you judge me without knowing who I am. You don't know what my life is like, what I do every day, what my job is, who my wife and family are. How can you put a blanket on my faith and call me ignorant for having faith in something that you cannot prove, or disprove?

I would search your heart man, because I guarantee you that you believe in things, and have faith in things that you cannot prove or disprove either. The evolution THEORY for example. I'm not judging you for that.

I'm just saying dude, you're young, you have a lot of growing up to do. I'm young too, most of us are, but everyone is in a different spot man.

Just in case you wanted to "get to know me" a little: I was raised in the church. I started supporting myself early on in highschool, I am extremely intelligent, I graduated highschool early and started working for a software programming company, and developing my own software packages, I then got in a little trouble with the law for hacking some state and govt servers, I then became a drug addict and went through a lot of bad stuff. I turned my life back around, I moved to colorado I met my wife, I continue to do software programming. My wife and I are looking to move soon. <-- Now that "you know me a little", maybe you wont judge me as an ignorant Christian without regard.


I was a devout Christian for nearly all of my life. I know that you, like myself, posses no mental powers that allow you to see, hear, or "feel" any presence of anything supernatural.

And for the record evolution is proven lab tested and observed fact. Natural selection is theory. No less supported than atomic theory, cell theory, gravitation/relativity, even plate tectonics, and on and on.

And I'm not exactly sure who isn't for religious freedom.. I've already said I don't care what anyone believes in. Just stay out of my government, education, medicine, and my face. All I want is freedom from your bullshit. And I mean that is the nicest way possible thanks.
-Hunter

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meat like product wrote:And for the record evolution is proven lab tested and observed fact.


Evolution, as in the ability for cells and organisms to evolve within species, yes. Nothing outside of that has ever been proven though. Everyone knows that we were never apes. That would defy all scientific facts that state everything degenerates and dies, which has been proven by thousands of years of degeneration and death.

meat like product wrote:And I'm not exactly sure who isn't for religious freedom..


meat like product wrote:Just stay out of my government, education, medicine, and my face.


It's my government, education, and medicine too. I will believe what I believe, just as you believe what you believe. The difference is, I am not telling you to get out of my face because I am giving you freedom to believe what you want.

meat like product wrote:All I want is freedom from your bullshit.


Freedom is given, and I am giving you yours. I'm doing nothing here but defending my rights in my own believes, because I won't be called ignorant, or blind for something I live my life for.

EDIT: For the record, I believe in science. I also believe that science and deity line up.
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dono wrote:
meat like product wrote:And for the record evolution is proven lab tested and observed fact.


Evolution, as in the ability for cells and organisms to evolve within species, yes. Nothing outside of that has ever been proven though. Everyone knows that we were never apes. That would defy all scientific facts that state everything degenerates and dies, which has been proven by thousands of years of degeneration and death.

meat like product wrote:And I'm not exactly sure who isn't for religious freedom..


meat like product wrote:Just stay out of my government, education, medicine, and my face.


It's my government, education, and medicine too. I will believe what I believe, just as you believe what you believe. The difference is, I am not telling you to get out of my face because I am giving you freedom to believe what you want.

meat like product wrote:All I want is freedom from your bullshit.


Freedom is given, and I am giving you yours. I'm doing nothing here but defending my rights in my own believes, because I won't be called ignorant, or blind for something I live my life for.

EDIT: For the record, I believe in science. I also believe that science and deity line up.


There have been multiple cases of known speciation including a very impressive two decade long experiment that resulted in a new species of escherichia capable of surviving on inorganic nylon. Before coming to your conclusions you should be more familiar with the evidence.

And if your God has any say in matters outside of your church that have any effect on my life freedom from religion is NOT given.
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dono wrote:
EDIT: For the record, I believe in science. I also believe that science and deity line up.


Why? If you're just talking about the possibility of the existence of anything supernatural then sure.. It doesn't really make a difference. Otherwise what's your reasoning?
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meat like product wrote:And if your God has any say in matters outside of your church that have any effect on my life freedom from religion is NOT given.


1) If you don't believe in God, then it doesn't really matter what he has to say anywhere. Because he's not there. That leaves nothing for you to complain about, nor does it give you any reason to feel that you are not abel to not believe, or say that your freedom from religion is not able to be exorcised.

2) You are continually implying that I am somehow taking something away from you because of what you don't believe in. Yet, I have never condemned you, insulted your intelligence, bashed your "faith" or said you were wrong. I have only tried desperately to salvage whats left of what I believe, because you HAVE bashed my faith, intelligence, and said I am wrong.

You seem like an intelligent person, so I don't see why what's going on is going on.
Scott

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meat like product wrote:Why? If you're just talking about the possibility of the existence of anything supernatural then sure.. It doesn't really make a difference. Otherwise what's your reasoning?


I simply stated that before you could label me as a "wacko christian that is ignorant to science."
Scott

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dono wrote:Oh my.

Earth and Rik, I am glad there are some people here in favor PURE religious freedom.

Tek, this is sort of for you. I'm sorry to single you out like this, but your statement about "Christians being ignorant" or whatever you said stuck with me a little bit.

Bottom line is, if you think I am ignorant Tek, for being a Christian, then it seems you have a problem. Why? Because, you will be the one sitting there judging me for my beliefs, based on what you have previously experienced wether or not it is or is not the truth. And you will take your beliefs as fact, throwing my intelligence out the door without regard.... because I am a Christian. That goes beyond ignorant my friend.

How can you judge me without knowing who I am. You don't know what my life is like, what I do every day, what my job is, who my wife and family are. How can you put a blanket on my faith and call me ignorant for having faith in something that you cannot prove, or disprove?

I would search your heart man, because I guarantee you that you believe in things, and have faith in things that you cannot prove or disprove either. The evolution THEORY for example. I'm not judging you for that.

I'm just saying dude, you're young, you have a lot of growing up to do. I'm young too, most of us are, but everyone is in a different spot man.

Just in case you wanted to "get to know me" a little: I was raised in the church. I started supporting myself early on in highschool, I am extremely intelligent, I graduated highschool early and started working for a software programming company, and developing my own software packages, I then got in a little trouble with the law for hacking some state and govt servers, I then became a drug addict and went through a lot of bad stuff. I turned my life back around, I moved to colorado I met my wife, I continue to do software programming. My wife and I are looking to move soon. <-- Now that "you know me a little", maybe you wont judge me as an ignorant Christian without regard.


I am 100% in favor of religous freedom. You wanna waste your time with all that, its none of my business!

In some countires, evangelical christians murder children as part of witch hunts... I'm just using this as an exapmle... my point is, some beliefs are just stupid. That's my opinion. But if you want to believe in them, that is fine with me, that is your business...



...and the rest, i don't know, you're probably right... you seem like a smart dude and your wife is probably hot... I sucks! there I said it, you happy!?

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(Disclaimer: Use this template -- "tl;dr" -- when quoting the following post) :wink:

I grew up in a christian home, in christian school through 7th grade, the whole nine. After high school, somewhere along the last 5 or 6 years I decided that a break would be good for me in order to establish a perspective on my own. No small task as I've found out, especially after such long 'indoctrination'. I don't mean that in a critical sense. I was simply young, and truly had no idea what I was praying for and all. I do feel that that is the wrong way to teach a child. I see nothing wrong with people believing anything that makes sense to them. What one person is absolutely convicted on cannot be the same for all, and will never be. That's fine by me. Faith in anything should be self-appreciated, I don't think it can be taught. I understand not all religious families raise their kids the same way I was, that's good. I believe it's better for humans to have their own discoveries, whether towards god or whatever it may turn out to be.

I've had many life experiences that have made me lean both directions at different times, and what I do know now is that I know absolutely nothing. In only a half dozen years I've been through a relatively strong christian belief system, to complete atheism, to where I'm at now which is neither or in between.

I currently cling to a belief that there is a 'power' of sorts that underlies everything, although not a deity-type/overseer force. I describe it as a scientific power. Be it waves, frequencies, deep field, anything, whatever. I have been very interested (although still pretty ignorant) in the quantum sciences for a long time and a lot of the principles make sense to me on a deeper level that I cannot understand, or explain very well in words. A lot of this has come through to me in, I admit, my frequent dives into psychedelics in college. These substances are not completely where I base myself, but I simply use it as another tool to open up my mind to places where I would not normally look for answers.

I no longer believe in creationism in the biblical sense, but cannot prove to myself otherwise. I am ok with that at this stage. Evolutionary theory makes a little more sense to my world view, and that is what matters to me. I do believe in advancement of consciousness after this life, through some currently intangible manifestation of the law of conservation of matter. I believe consciousness is wide-spread, a web, a network. After bodily death, (whatever 'it' is) is released back into the ebb and flow so to speak. I like to entertain the idea that we've all theoretically 'drank the piss' of civilizations long gone, and I admit I think we're all space dust anyhow. In this sense, I am just as likely to in one way become part of a million different future-things through decomposition, such as a toilet/tree/wolf/air/or fire hydrant. Some options are less romantic than others.

Back on the Biblical front, and to 'their' credit, I believe it is man's misinterpretation (and possible distortion) of the text that has led to its followers intricate practices of heavily ritualistic teachings. If god does exist, I hardly believe it matters what you wear to church on sunday, or what direction your prayer mat faces. If god exists, I think many many people have truly lost touch long ago with what the true foundations of the teachings were. That happens.

As a long closing note, I would like to switch gears and submit my latest wonderment for discussion. It started in college--I was an astronomy minor, and found an enormous amount of information supposing the whole construct of religion and god-worship was founded on observation of the night skies and the interpretation thereof. This would have begun in 'society' long before the earliest historical civilizations we know of, as humans (according to science) have been around for millions of years. I have been over 300 miles from the nearest man-made light, and I can attest to how absolutely brilliant the true/unopposed night sky is. I can only therefore imagine that long before cities and manufactured light, the sky was an extremely large part of early human's existence. Many people living in Los Angeles today, for example, have never even seen a satellite not to mention the explosive lights in the Milky Way and beyond. When I have seen the night sky, as they must have 10 million years ago, there is no other way to describe it other than one of the most captivating and soul-searching experiences one could have. It is easy to imagine early peoples attempting to make sense of what they were seeing, with stories and personifications of the 12 of the more obvious constellations (zodiac) among others. Depending on their level of competence and observation they would have been able to forecast celestial events far into the past and future, and would've wanted a way to easily pass down this information by word of mouth (ie--the early bible?). It sounds strange, and my lack of communication skills over the internet cannot fully express my points. Therefore I leave you with a video I recently, and rather coincidentally, came across that better details what I'm getting at. If you choose to watch it from the beginning, I'll warn you it may be slightly condescending or sensationalist for some people. In that case I either will remind you to not take it so seriously, or to simply skip ahead to here to get to the meat and potatoes.

Thanks for reading.
Last edited by zeitgeist on Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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meat like product wrote:
Earthbound wrote:
meat like product wrote:[ If we ever want to see any more progress as a species we have to UNITE and stop this virus.


This is some sick shit dude.
You proclaim to know it all, but in truth you're just as ignorant as any other human being. What gives you the right to talk like this? What if a religious person talks about infidel morons, and about stopping the non-believer virus, yeah, then you would be mad as hell, wouldn't you?

I never said religious people are perfect. Those muslim terrorists are just following orders, using a religion to justify their hatred. But really, that has nothing to do with religion.
It's like when I'll kill another religious human being, and say it was written by Darwin to do so, you would say I'm crazy.. You cannot condemn a complete religion just by a single man action. The easy way is to condemn it, yes, but it's not right, and deep down you know it.


What the hell are you talking about? I never claimed to know it all. Unlike religious fanatics I'm the one capable of admitting I know nothing about the "supernatural" which is why I BELIEVE IN NOTHING. And as a result of my lack of belief I don't let millenia old religious books conduct my life. I, as well as all of you have a pretty good understanding of what is best for one and all and if you would actually read these "holy" books you would see religion is not it and secular morality is all we need to grow as a civilization.

"I never said religious people are perfect. Those muslim terrorists are just following orders, using a religion to justify their hatred. But really, that has nothing to do with religion."

You should read the Koran. They're doing exactly what they're told to do. Thankfully most Christians ignore leviticus, deuteronomy, and the rest of the bible that promotes violence, murder, oppression, homocide, infanticide, slavery, bigotry, racism, etc, etc, etc so Christians aren't really a threat as they have been in the past. Besides the racists, homophobes, anti-free speech, anti-science, anti-medicine, anti-everything that isn't "Christian".


Dude, I rest my case. Do you even read what I wrote?
Talking about contradictions: You said: 'Unlike religious fanatics I'm the one capable of admitting I know nothing about the "supernatural" which is why I BELIEVE IN NOTHING.' Knowing nothing about the 'supernatural' doesn't make believing in nothing true. Do you really think that not knowing is a firm ground to build on? Is the world around you gone when you close your eyes?
And hey, believing in nothing is a religion/ believe in it's own. It's the same as 'forced to do spontaniously'. Come on man.

Really, read/ re-read Dono's posts. He's right when he says that: You have bashed his/ our faith, intelligence, and said we're wrong. We don't want to go in that direction. Let's debate in an open civillized, en friendly way please. It's all goooood at Twoism. Let's keep it that way.

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zeitgeist wrote:(Disclaimer: Use this template -- "tl;dr" -- when quoting the following post) :wink:

I grew up in a christian home, in christian school through 7th grade, the whole nine. After high school, somewhere along the last 5 or 6 years I decided that a break would be good for me in order to establish a perspective on my own. No small task as I've found out, especially after such long 'indoctrination'. I don't mean that in a critical sense. I was simply young, and truly had no idea what I was praying for and all. I do feel that that is the wrong way to teach a child. I see nothing wrong with people believing anything that makes sense to them. What one person is absolutely convicted on cannot be the same for all, and will never be. That's fine by me. Faith in anything should be self-appreciated, I don't think it can be taught. I understand not all religious families raise their kids the same way I was, that's good. I believe it's better for humans to have their own discoveries, whether towards god or whatever it may turn out to be.

I've had many life experiences that have made me lean both directions at different times, and what I do know now is that I know absolutely nothing. In only a half dozen years I've been through a relatively strong christian belief system, to complete atheism, to where I'm at now which is neither or in between.

I currently cling to a belief that there is a 'power' of sorts that underlies everything, although not a deity-type/overseer force. I describe it as a scientific power. Be it waves, frequencies, deep field, anything, whatever. I have been very interested (although still pretty ignorant) in the quantum sciences for a long time and a lot of the principles make sense to me on a deeper level that I cannot understand, or explain very well in words. A lot of this has come through to me in, I admit, my frequent dives into psychedelics in college. These substances are not completely where I base myself, but I simply use it as another tool to open up my mind to places where I would not normally look for answers.

I no longer believe in creationism in the biblical sense, but cannot prove to myself otherwise. I am ok with that at this stage. Evolutionary theory makes a little more sense to my world view, and that is what matters to me. I do believe in advancement of consciousness after this life, through some currently intangible manifestation of the law of conservation of matter. I believe consciousness is wide-spread, a web, a network. After bodily death, (whatever 'it' is) is released back into the ebb and flow so to speak. I like to entertain the idea that we've all theoretically 'drank the piss' of civilizations long gone, and I admit I think we're all space dust anyhow. In this sense, I am just as likely to in one way become part of a million different future-things through decomposition, such as a toilet/tree/wolf/air/or fire hydrant. Some options are less romantic than others.

Back on the Biblical front, and to 'their' credit, I believe it is man's misinterpretation (and possible distortion) of the text that has led to its followers intricate practices of heavily ritualistic teachings. If god does exist, I hardly believe it matters what you wear to church on sunday, or what direction your prayer mat faces. If god exists, I think many many people have truly lost touch long ago with what the true foundations of the teachings were. That happens.

As a long closing note, I would like to switch gears and submit my latest wonderment for discussion. It started in college--I was an astronomy minor, and found an enormous amount of information supposing the whole construct of religion and god-worship was founded on observation of the night skies and the interpretation thereof. This would have begun in 'society' long before the earliest historical civilizations we know of, as humans (according to science) have been around for millions of years. I have been over 300 miles from the nearest man-made light, and I can attest to how absolutely brilliant the true/unopposed night sky is. I can only therefore imagine that long before cities and manufactured light, the sky was an extremely large part of early human's existence. Many people living in Los Angeles today, for example, have never even seen a satellite not to mention the explosive lights in the Milky Way and beyond. When I have seen the night sky, as they must have 10 million years ago, there is no other way to describe it other than one of the most captivating and soul-searching experiences one could have. It is easy to imagine early peoples attempting to make sense of what they were seeing, with stories and personifications of the 12 of the more obvious constellations (zodiac) among others. Depending on their level of competence and observation they would have been able to forecast celestial events far into the past and future, and would've wanted a way to easily pass down this information by word of mouth (ie--the early bible?). It sounds strange, and my lack of communication skills over the internet cannot fully express my points. Therefore I leave you with a video I recently, and rather coincidentally, came across that better details what I'm getting at. If you choose to watch it from the beginning, I'll warn you it may be slightly condescending or sensationalist for some people. In that case I either will remind you to not take it so seriously, or to simply skip ahead to here to get to the meat and potatoes.

Thanks for reading.


I like the way you write, and can come a long way with your story.
It's good the read that your writing is civil and friendly. Thanks for that!

I 'll watch the movie links tomorrow, as I'm off to bed now. But I guess it has a sort of 'zeitgeist' vibe in it. You know that movie is full of contradictions and false information right? But it's an interesting approach.

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Sherbet Head
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Tekmosis wrote:I am 100% in favor of religous freedom. You wanna waste your time with all that, its none of my business!


Thank you!

Tekmosis wrote:In some countires, evangelical christians murder children as part of witch hunts.


I have never heard of that, and I can tell you that I do not do anything radical like that. I am a pretty normal guy, with a very liberal lifestyle, and viewpoint from many Christians.

In fact Tek, If you came over to my house or hung out with me, you wouldn't know I am a Christian. I say this not to bash on my own witness, but to tell you that It's a personal thing. It's not sacrificing children, or anything weird like that. A lot of what people think of or hear is not a true depiction. I don't dress up to go to church, I don't even go to church all the time! I don't hold bible studies in my living room, or wear a tie and slacks. I don't have 6 wives, I don't walk up to people and tell them they're going to hell, I don't preach, I drink alcohol, I cuss... I am a normal guy.

I'm just a normal guy, with a normal life, who happens to believe in something.

Tekmosis wrote:...and the rest, i don't know, you're probably right... you seem like a smart dude and your wife is probably hot... I sucks! there I said it, you happy!?


lol, my wife's is hot.
Scott

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Dayvan Cowboy
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Earthbound wrote:I like the way you write, and can come a long way with your story.
It's good the read that your writing is civil and friendly. Thanks for that!

I 'll watch the movie links tomorrow, as I'm off to bed now. But I guess it has a sort of 'zeitgeist' vibe in it. You know that movie is full of contradictions and false information right? But it's an interesting approach.


Cheers--The vid is certainly not all truth by any means, I just found it while reading about the dead sea scrolls last week. I think one of the archeologists is a narrator. Anyway, I just found the 'astrological stuff' to be interesting, and for the most part, verifiable with my copy of Starry Night. Whether that has any relation to their conclusions is what is up for interpretation I think. :)

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Eagle Minded
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dono wrote:
meat like product wrote:Why? If you're just talking about the possibility of the existence of anything supernatural then sure.. It doesn't really make a difference. Otherwise what's your reasoning?


I simply stated that before you could label me as a "wacko christian that is ignorant to science."


And I asked you why. So why?
-Hunter

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