Weird, completely unfounded speculation on unreleased stuff

[tonx]

fuck it. it's time to put up a cash bounty for these recordings.

Count me in for $250 contribution to the bounty for any/each, authentic full rip from source of Acid Memories, Closes, Play By Numbers, Catalog3, and/or Hopper Bay if released exclusively (or at least initially) on the Twoism forum. Include a bitcoin address in the id3 tag if you want to be really slick and anonymous about it.

anyone else ready to pony up?

[HighScore]

I'd be totally game, if we could organize something like the Caustic Window Kickstarter to gather money in order to purchase, from someone willing to sell, some of their unreleased material, even if it is something we already have in a crappy rip like the Old Tunes tapes and R35TT.

Regarding the covers of the cassettes of their early releases mentioned on the old website, mdg told me last year after I found the Closes Vol. 1 artwork on PIC's website, that the original Closes tapes had no artwork at all, so that's that.

[Jango9]

Should this hypothetical situation end up becoming a reality, what we need to do is raise enough money to pay for the medical bills after Mike & Marcus bust the kneecaps of whoever we end up getting to sell them (Could the [un]lucky fellow get them to sign the cast?).

[tonx]

I wonder how much a few full page ads in the Edinburgh and surroundings newspapers would run? There are copies of these things out there... it's not the holy grail. How hard can this be really?

mdg, if you're reading this, just feel free to send me your personal rips via private message when you have a minute. I promise not to tell anybody I got them all from you.

[tonx]

and fwiw, I would venture that the brothers would respect us far more for unearthing these already released treasures ourselves rather than mewling for them to cobble together some painful reissue that probably won't appeal to anyone but us weirdo fans.

[nick47]

I think paying someone a large sum of money for unreleased material, that they obviously dont want released, would get many people (mainly the brothers) pretty mad at you.

[tonx]

I think paying someone a large sum of money for unreleased material, that they obviously dont want released, would get many people (mainly the brothers) pretty mad at you.

I bet they don't really care too much at this point - either about giving any of it a proper rerelease or about their weirdo fans listening to some of it. It's probably not worth them revisiting and (well-documented perfectionism aside) they don't seem so vain as to likely give two shits about what some music nerds might think about obscure works they made in their youth.

My presumption is the only way we're ever going to hear any of these recordings is if someone who has an original release leaks it, and that such a leak represents the least painful, least dramatic, and least awkward way of this stuff coming out.

[Opothecary]

I think it's just a very very tight circle that these releases moved in. I look at the timeline something like this...

1995 - Twoism limited LP release

1996 - Maxima and both OT tapes get sent out as demos and spread among label insiders

1996 - Hi Scores releases

1997 - CD reissues for friends only, probably at a Red Moon party celebrating their signing to Warp?

1998 - MHTRTC


The idea that this stuff that was "reissued" on CD and is so much more rare than something like the OT - you'd think it should be the other way around, but nothing of theirs ever left their circle of friends and families until 1995, maybe Play by Numbers in incredibly limited numbers. Maxima and OT went out to some non-trusted people in their quest for a record deal - record deal is signed, they make a small attempt at curating their back catalog for their friends to celebraate, but now there's no need for that music to expand beyond their immediate acquaintances anymore.

I think Play by Numbers was a little bit different and a few copies probably ended up in shops around their immediate area - at the time, just another local indie shoegaze band. I think that's something that they choose to probably downplay too. Short of a proper release, this will probably be the first and only one to leak.

[tonx]

We've over-mythologized the idea that these early recordings were so very precious and private and only shared with trusted friends. well yeah, nobody else wanted to hear the stuff... nobody knew who the hell these dudes were!

If they made 100 copies of a record it wasn't because they were trying to keep it rare or special -- it was because there were probably less than 100 people that had any interest in hearing them at that point. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that some chunk of those are sitting in a box in their attic, untouched. Or most got mailed to record labels and tossed in a bin without ever getting a listen.

We talk about respecting the brothers' wishes to keep these things a mystery, but I'm guessing it's more their wish simply that we stop having unrealistic expectations for material that they don't consider good enough to match the name they've since built up. And perhaps to stop asking them for something which was already released in its time, albeit in small numbers. It's out there... let's just find it.

Until this stuff leaks, it remains just an awkward wrinkle of their lore and mystique. The notion that there is more hidden - perhaps much more - than the music/meaning/messages that they've surfaced publicly is central to the BoC aesthetic, but at this point in their career and monumental artistic achievements, it's a notion we can move past with regard to their early records.

[Jango9]

I think Play by Numbers was a little bit different and a few copies probably ended up in shops around their immediate area - at the time, just another local indie shoegaze band. I think that's something that they choose to probably downplay too. Short of a proper release, this will probably be the first and only one to leak.

The old Jockey Slut interview said that copies of Hooper Bay "go for small fortunes", I think it would be reasonable to assume there's a few of those floating around too. Not to mention the matter of where the hell the vinyl pressings of that one ended up.

[anecdote]

where the hell the vinyl pressings of that one ended up.

Someone on here said a few months ago that they read in an interview with someone that one of the brothers still has 40(?) copies. But who knows ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (Sorry for the janky-sounding sentence.)

[green calx]

I think that they don't give a shit about their fans. If they were to do so, there would be higher outcome of their music, just as AFX did, no stupid obstacles in showing their own mistakes. They just want to keep this 'mystery', never resolved riddles, which gets more and more silly as you extend your musical taste over the years. So this mist of mistery may be the thing that their music tastes so good, regardless it's factual quality. Used to listen to them every freaking day, now they're just really enjoyable curiosity, and MHTRTC is the best electronic album forever.

[Mexicola]

Guess there's no pleading some people. If they didn't give a shit about the fans, surely they'd peddle every tune, new or old, remix, or recording of Mike lighting his farts to within an inch of its life? Lord knows, there would be enough idiots willing to pay for it.

Quality control and integrity are not obsolete concepts, contrary to the rabid me, me, me demands of the fucking social media generation.

Get over yourselves, seriously.

[Mexicola]

I may have gone in a little hard there. Sorry. Been a long week

[green calx]

My point was that they're so fabulous due to the mystery they've created by showing us all only half of their ass, I bet that they love to be desired, tease all of us with all those thousands of never-to-be realased songs, sitting in the studio all the time (but unfortunately creating music for TV), because they may be afraid, they may be afraid that they will lose this control and place where they're desired by everyone, because maybe if it wasn't for this bubble of secret they're feeling safe in, we all would realise that their music is nothing beyond. Aphex showed us recently that he's only the human, he was aware that it will be a great surprise for everyone if he put out his early stuff (while hardly mentioning about its existence, unlike BoC who likes to chatter so much, but doing nothing.) It's hard to put out a weak record if you have put out like four LP's during the last seventeen years.
bet that's the reason why I'm metalhead actually, the authencity and being honest with audience is something I appreciate. This whole 'mystery' came to the stage where it has just became silly.

[rick7487]

One speculation I had was that the cover art of Catalog 3 was actually morse code and if you could break it up correctly you would have the true name of the album, or some kind of subliminal message. Tried figuring it out a while back but I gave up.

On a side note, I have heard the track "Visual Drone 12" from it, but only that track. In a way TH shares qualities with the track, and I understand now what they meant when they said that TH related back to their early unreleased material. It's really not that remarkable, and I think most BOC fans would overlook it if it was ever released. It still would be cool to hear however and be able to listen to their progression as musicians.

Personally I believe these unreleased albums are floating around but whoever is passing them on has it on lockdown.

[ParticleGhost]

On a side note, I have heard the track "Visual Drone 12" from it, but only that track.

It's a fake.

[Stavorius]

Chris Cunningham has some of the Geogaddi outtakes and/or live ATP track

I think he has the whole realm of IDM on tape.

[d e n]

to kind of continue off of what mexicola said in response to green calx.

there is no contract between a band and their fans... BOC certainly has one with Warp, but bands do not have an obligation to release a certain amount of music to satisfy a listeners expectations.

As far as I know, the only 'chatter' boc has made regarding the early unreleased music was that someone let them down and exposed the music when they asked for that to not happen. additionally they mentioned how that if the early music was going to be released they didn't want it to be in poor quality. that may seem trivial... however, those details are clearly a priority for them. so, one could just as easily say their restraint is a sign of their caring.

I understand the frustration, but making assumptions like that looks kind weak.

[Najlepsiejszy]

Nobody is talking about releasing EVERYTHING