Some interesting Hooper Bay related comment from Nov 8, 1999

[mechanismj]

So you're saying the people I am proposing invented them to embellish their mystique subsequently didn't own up to inventing them?

Five different releases, up to 100 copies of some of them, virtually priceless and not even a single plausible photo of one has ever been seen. Do you know 100 people from 30 years in your past that would never have been tempted to sell something so valuable in the intervening time? Or even just post a bragging picture? Have you ever met young musicians who weren't keen to put their music in the hands of virtually ANYONE who would listen to it? Like they spent a decade intentionally limiting and curating who they gave their tapes to, and swearing them to secrecy for 30 years because they knew they would have an enigmatic reputation to uphold decades later.

Honestly, the entire thing is preposterous.

I get where you're coming from. It's crazy that not one of these pre-twoism releases have shown up yet and yeah, you would think at least 1/100 would have uploaded at least a photo or something by now. I mean I don't personally know these guys so I don't really know their intentions, but do they really seem to be the type that would flat out lie about it on record? If anything I would guess the record label would be more inclined to embellish their mystique than BoC themselves.

Consider that they didn't admit they were even brothers until the TCH interview cycle.

They do love a good mystery!

[mthrndr]

So you're saying the people I am proposing invented them to embellish their mystique subsequently didn't own up to inventing them?

Five different releases, up to 100 copies of some of them, virtually priceless and not even a single plausible photo of one has ever been seen. Do you know 100 people from 30 years in your past that would never have been tempted to sell something so valuable in the intervening time? Or even just post a bragging picture? Have you ever met young musicians who weren't keen to put their music in the hands of virtually ANYONE who would listen to it? Like they spent a decade intentionally limiting and curating who they gave their tapes to, and swearing them to secrecy for 30 years because they knew they would have an enigmatic reputation to uphold decades later.

Honestly, the entire thing is preposterous.

I mean, it does seem nuts. That 2005 interview was almost 16 years ago, and acid memories still has not appeared (though they seemed to think it was inevitable, which is odd if they were lying). Even if most "friends" would be willing to keep them safe, someone would eventually need the money. Just one copy of one of these would sell for thousands. And as you said, not even a photo of the cd or tape (of course, there also doesn't seem to exist a single video of either brother either! Maybe they ARE in a cult lol)

I do think the music exists though - the R35tt has mbv-esque tracks just like the description of PBN, there are tracks that match the runtimes of ones on Closes and Catalog 3, etc. Autechre also claim that BoC dropped a lot of former friends after the R35tt leaked. So they were apparently really upset about that.

I just think that there are far fewer copies of these albums than they claim. Probably no CDs. Even so, for them not to have leaked is a baffling miracle - so I will allow for the possibility that they were never "cut" as discrete albums that were distributed.

[mechanismj]

Man, that is a trip to think about. Have I never really seen video of them? I guess the answer is yes! Seems almost impossible these days.

I always find the identifying a track by its length, especially in these circumstances, to be a hard sell. We know they have made multiple versions of songs over the years and they all vary in length. The tapes have crossfades in some spots, which makes sense if they are just compilations. So, you are unlikely to get an accurate account through that.

I do believe though that, if those unheard albums do exist, we have heard bits and pieces of versions of some of those unheard tracks in one form or another. It seems highly unlikely that they would completely exist in a vacuum.

[ZosoCon]

Consider that they didn't admit they were even brothers until the TCH interview cycle.

They do love a good mystery!

True. That was the only thing I could think of that is related to lying, but that was more of omitting information than not giving blatant misinformation.
They didn't want to be on the "Orbital" brother-train, etc. etc. They just wanted to set the record straight during TCH, to in fact maybe lighten their mystery. That was a big transition period for them; wanting to show they were ordinary guys, and not mysterious devil worshiping gnomes the internet and media wanted them to be. And of course I think they just respect their privacy and the less information on them, the better.... thus not being upfront with the brother thing. (Maybe that's why there is conflicting information on their birthdays which I think they're better off with Warp and Wiki/general public having the wrong dates, but that's a whole new can of worms there).

[Thatch]

I think it's safe to assume that the chap from 1999 does not have all of those things.

Q Chastic 2x7" is not out there. It's a DJ tool for AFX himself.

Hooper Bay would not have been pressed on vinyl at great expense unless they wanted to sell a few copies.

The early albums do exist but not in the quantities stated on various websites, BOC's 90s site included.

Most of them will be handmade cassettes with probably no meaningful artwork, or CD-Rs burnt for a specific person.

Some of the albums might have no physical copies at all, and might just be projects that exist in the mind of BOC so that they can compartmentalise the work they do.

[SamuraiDrifter]

So you're saying the people I am proposing invented them to embellish their mystique subsequently didn't own up to inventing them?

Five different releases, up to 100 copies of some of them, virtually priceless and not even a single plausible photo of one has ever been seen. Do you know 100 people from 30 years in your past that would never have been tempted to sell something so valuable in the intervening time? Or even just post a bragging picture? Have you ever met young musicians who weren't keen to put their music in the hands of virtually ANYONE who would listen to it? Like they spent a decade intentionally limiting and curating who they gave their tapes to, and swearing them to secrecy for 30 years because they knew they would have an enigmatic reputation to uphold decades later.

Honestly, the entire thing is preposterous.

It's an interesting question. On the one hand they most certainly do have a treasure trove of unreleased music. R35TT contains over an hour and a half of tunes, most of which were never heard on the Old Tunes tapes, of wildly different styles, including shoegaze which is often mentioned in relation to the pre-Twoism releases.

But on the other hand, there are a couple of contradictions that imply not everything is as it seems. For example, BoC said they'd only been using the name Boards of Canada for 4 years in a 1998 interview, yet Acid Memories, supposedly from 89, has that name prominently on the cover. So something doesn't add up there.

Furthermore we know that Mike and Marcus have trolled their audience/the press before. Remember that interview where they were asked about their favorite new tracks and they just made a bunch of total nonsense up like "Seagy Eyeball" and Ova - Flean"?

So it could go either way I think. Definitely could be homemade compilations given out to a couple of close friends.

[mthrndr]

Furthermore we know that Mike and Marcus have trolled their audience/the press before. Remember that interview where they were asked about their favorite new tracks and they just made a bunch of total nonsense up like "Seagy Eyeball" and Ova - Flean"?

So it could go either way I think. Definitely could be homemade compilations given out to a couple of close friends.

https://bocpages.org/wiki/CMJ_New_Music_Report

They must have been laughing their asses off putting that list together. I also recall two separate interviews, one where one of them said the other wrote most of the tracks they made (i think it was supposed to be Marcus) then another where they said it was 50/50. So we do have a history of Aphex-like embellishment. So again, I think the old releases are categorized tracks that they may have put on a few tapes but then probably made up the distribution story to enhance their history. I also think it's amusing that twoism had MDG posting quite a bit a long time ago and if any 'friend' would have these albums, it would be him (of course, if it's all fictional he probably wouldn't tell us

[Jango9]

Man, that is a trip to think about. Have I never really seen video of them? I guess the answer is yes! Seems almost impossible these days.

And just think, on top of that the *only* time we've ever heard their normal speaking voices was in that one John Peel interview, and even then we only heard them talk for about 90 seconds total and it was never clear which voice belonged to which brother. How insane is that?

But on the other hand, there are a couple of contradictions that imply not everything is as it seems. For example, BoC said they'd only been using the name Boards of Canada for 4 years in a 1998 interview, yet Acid Memories, supposedly from 89, has that name prominently on the cover. So something doesn't add up there.

Supposedly it's been confirmed in a PM between someone on this forum and mdg (gotta find this post again) that the original Closes Vol. 1 cassettes had no artwork and the "album art" was made up specifically for the website, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to assume the same was true for Acid Memories.

[mthrndr]

Why was the comment linking back to skytree deleted? Basically in an old thread, Skytree heavily implied that the old releases do not actually exist. But this was based on another comment from someone who said Pendle Coven said they didn't exist (I liked those guys back in the day). But per MDG, BoC claim to have never met Pendle Coven.

With the sparse info from the band, this forum is essentially repeating the same info over and over lol.
Here is what MDG stated in the Old Cassettes thread:

viewtopic.php?p=97896#p97896


"Hi guys, this is an interesting discussion, a few things: there were many compilations made by BOC in the early years, but as with most bands when they began releasing music properly on a large scale they just preferred not to acknowledge that early material. The music that has become available on the net in the past is just a small portion of the band's recordings from those years. I've seen comments a few times about a mystery "35 track" tape which itself is a mystery to us too, sorry. Another post above mentioned "Pendle Coven" and I looked into this and the band have never heard of the guys who record as "Pendle Coven", so that's maybe another one to add to the growing list of people who falsely claim to have known BOC personally."

Notice how he explicitly fails to mention the actual supposed releases? Here's my final guess on this: The Bros created various mixtapes that were vaguely similar to "releases" they conjured up to increase the mystique of the band early on ("Boards of Canada is as much about what we don't do as what we do" - Mike/Marcus). These were maybe given to some small number of friends (nowhere near 100 though.) As they were trying to build their brand, they post hoc created album titles and artwork to fill out an otherwise sparse old website. BUT - they DID have music that matched up to these, probably sent to friends in random mixtapes - and this is what ended up being leaked as R35tt. The existence of this actual music is what makes this all so confusing.

My friends and I, all nonmusicians, in high school and college created entire discographies for bands we imagined out of thin air - this included album titles, tracklistings and artwork. We even put these on a website in the 90s. None of it existed - but unlike BoC, there weren't ANY tracks at all.

[SamuraiDrifter]

Why was the comment linking back to skytree deleted? Basically in an old thread, Skytree heavily implied that the old releases do not actually exist. But this was based on another comment from someone who said Pendle Coven said this (I liked those guys back in the day). But per MDG, BoC claim to have never met Pendle Coven.

Sorry, what's the connection between Skytree and Pendle Coven? Is Skytree a member of Pendle Coven or something?

[mthrndr]

Why was the comment linking back to skytree deleted? Basically in an old thread, Skytree heavily implied that the old releases do not actually exist. But this was based on another comment from someone who said Pendle Coven said this (I liked those guys back in the day). But per MDG, BoC claim to have never met Pendle Coven.

Sorry, what's the connection between Skytree and Pendle Coven? Is Skytree a member of Pendle Coven or something?

Sorry, just made a big edit to my prior comment. For context, In the thread I linked to above, someone claimed to have talked to a band called Pendle Coven who told him that none of the pre-twoism releases existed. Skytree then replies to that comment and basically confirms that this is the correct info. But then MDG jumps in and says BoC didn't know who Pendle Coven were.

My guess: the MUSIC exists, in some form or other, among thousands of recordings the Bros did in the 80s/90s. But those ALBUMS do not.

Clear as mud?

[SamuraiDrifter]

That makes more sense - does Skytree have some sort of in with BOC?

[mthrndr]

That makes more sense - does Skytree have some sort of in with BOC?

He's a frequent poster and also a producer. https://skytree.bandcamp.com/

Maybe he can jump in and let us know if he has any specific knowledge or if he's just employing Occam's Razor

[Echelon]

That makes more sense - does Skytree have some sort of in with BOC?

He's a frequent poster and also a producer. https://skytree.bandcamp.com/

Maybe he can jump in and let us know if he has any specific knowledge or if he's just employing Occam's Razor

Doesn't hurt to ask nicely

Though at this point, I really don't care much about these old releases. They probably sound even more primitive than Twoism. I want to hear the BOC of the future!

[niknak]

Lot of sensible thoughts in this thread that I agree with!

I agree mostly - I am quite sure the music on these "releases" exists, but also suspect we have heard all or most of it on the R35/OT tapes. The actual releases themselves are (IMO) invented, or at best loosely based on some of the tapes they made for themselves or their mates. I don't believe for a second Music70 released 5 albums on CD or vinyl all the while they were putting together amateur tapes like the OT ones.

What i think is most plausible: they got signed to Skam on the basis of Twoism (the first actual Music70 output that could be said to be a "release") and sending BoC Maxima around to industry people. They decided to invent a obscure past for themselves as a bit of a laugh, and created these releases (maybe partly based on actual tapes), made up the artwork and put it on their website. Maybe they actually went as far as burning some CDs and passing them around within a very close circle, but that these existed prior to this in any real form I seriously doubt.

I'm only a few years younger than M&M, so I remember what it was like discovering new music in this time. There was no information available! None! No internet, no discographies, no forums. If you discovered a new band (I'm talking fairly obscure, not ones who would have been in NME) you were completely in the dark about them. Word of mouth only. Asking friends 'have you ever heard this?' or 'know anything about them?'. Often weeks or months later you would find out they had an entire back catalog you had no idea about. At best you would find mentions or reviews in The Wire or would pore over the 100 pages of tiny text classifieds in Record Collector for clues. I remember writing actual letters to rare record dealers asking about certain artists and if they had anything by them, and piecing together a partial discography over weeks. So I think part of it was evoking that sense of obscurity and history and mystery.

I get where you're coming from. It's crazy that not one of these pre-twoism releases have shown up yet and yeah, you would think at least 1/100 would have uploaded at least a photo or something by now. I mean I don't personally know these guys so I don't really know their intentions, but do they really seem to be the type that would flat out lie about it on record? If anything I would guess the record label would be more inclined to embellish their mystique than BoC themselves.

I wouldn't say they were "lying". I think people often mistake them as being super serious, when they have a sly, mischievous humour. I think inventing or embellishing a past for themselves is part of that.

A lot of people who own these, just see Mike and Mark as friends or distant relatives. Maybe they can't find them either, or threw them away long ago. It would make much more sense for the MASK compilations to surface earlier because those comps were specifically targeted to IDM fans and I can guarantee you everyone who bought them knew how rare they were and knew they were IDM relics of gold. That's not the same with these early BoC releases. No one around the Board Bros even knew that they would have such a crazy fanbase, 20-25 years later. That's why they haven't bothered ripping, or listing on Discogs, because they simply don't know the significance of it. It was probably just "my friend's crazy old band" or something.

I don't buy this. It would only have taken one person to have saved them for us to have seen the evidence. Relatives, even distant ones, or old friends would have at some point heard about them and known they were successful musicians and done some googling. And wondered about that tape or CD they had in the attic. I had a box full of tapes from various local bands in exactly this time period, and while i eventually taped over or lost most of them I know people who kept them all. So i have little doubt if they existed in any real sense, someone would have provided evidence over the past 25-30 years.

[niknak]

I mean, it does seem nuts. That 2005 interview was almost 16 years ago, and acid memories still has not appeared (though they seemed to think it was inevitable, which is odd if they were lying). Even if most "friends" would be willing to keep them safe, someone would eventually need the money. Just one copy of one of these would sell for thousands. And as you said, not even a photo of the cd or tape (of course, there also doesn't seem to exist a single video of either brother either! Maybe they ARE in a cult lol)

I do think the music exists though - the R35tt has mbv-esque tracks just like the description of PBN, there are tracks that match the runtimes of ones on Closes and Catalog 3, etc. Autechre also claim that BoC dropped a lot of former friends after the R35tt leaked. So they were apparently really upset about that.

I just think that there are far fewer copies of these albums than they claim. Probably no CDs. Even so, for them not to have leaked is a baffling miracle - so I will allow for the possibility that they were never "cut" as discrete albums that were distributed.

Agree with this 100%!

Hooper Bay would not have been pressed on vinyl at great expense unless they wanted to sell a few copies.

The early albums do exist but not in the quantities stated on various websites, BOC's 90s site included.

Most of them will be handmade cassettes with probably no meaningful artwork, or CD-Rs burnt for a specific person.

Some of the albums might have no physical copies at all, and might just be projects that exist in the mind of BOC so that they can compartmentalise the work they do.

And this. Very well put!

[niknak]

It's an interesting question. On the one hand they most certainly do have a treasure trove of unreleased music. R35TT contains over an hour and a half of tunes, most of which were never heard on the Old Tunes tapes, of wildly different styles, including shoegaze which is often mentioned in relation to the pre-Twoism releases.

But on the other hand, there are a couple of contradictions that imply not everything is as it seems. For example, BoC said they'd only been using the name Boards of Canada for 4 years in a 1998 interview, yet Acid Memories, supposedly from 89, has that name prominently on the cover. So something doesn't add up there.

Furthermore we know that Mike and Marcus have trolled their audience/the press before. Remember that interview where they were asked about their favorite new tracks and they just made a bunch of total nonsense up like "Seagy Eyeball" and Ova - Flean"?

So it could go either way I think. Definitely could be homemade compilations given out to a couple of close friends.

All very good points.

Furthermore we know that Mike and Marcus have trolled their audience/the press before. Remember that interview where they were asked about their favorite new tracks and they just made a bunch of total nonsense up like "Seagy Eyeball" and Ova - Flean"?

So it could go either way I think. Definitely could be homemade compilations given out to a couple of close friends.

https://bocpages.org/wiki/CMJ_New_Music_Report

They must have been laughing their asses off putting that list together. I also recall two separate interviews, one where one of them said the other wrote most of the tracks they made (i think it was supposed to be Marcus) then another where they said it was 50/50. So we do have a history of Aphex-like embellishment. So again, I think the old releases are categorized tracks that they may have put on a few tapes but then probably made up the distribution story to enhance their history.

Yep. I think this fake compilation is perhaps the strongest evidence these are similar fabrications. While some of this music probably exists, I wouldn't be surprised if one or two of these releases is entirely invented including track titles.

[niknak]

Pre-Twoism releases truthers unite! Now just call me Q

[NorthSaturnian]

Pre-Twoism releases truthers unite! Now just call me Q

I'm a believer

[bocbocbocboc]

I think it's fairly obvious that the pre-Twoism albums exist, the Boc bros said themselves in the La Materia interview.

I find it interesting that A14 was floating around as "Godever" long before R35TT dropped, which might imply someone out there might have leaked it.

As much as I want to hear Boards of Canada's early stuff, I think it's private for a reason. Like a lot of this stuff they made as teenagers and is probably very personal to them. I mean imagine if someone dug thru your stuff, found your diary from your teenage years, and posted everything online for obsessive fans.