Tomorrow's Harvest

[NTFMTS]

Western society is built on, and has been largely successful because of, the twin concepts of the community and the nuclear family. Over the last fifty years, the core upon which our society has been built has been eroded, in one way or another, by a variety of forces. What you consider those forces to be coincides with your personal beliefs. To conservatives, those forces are the irreligious and those who live nontraditional lifestyles. To liberals, those forces are the religious and those who uphold traditional lifestyles. Accordingly, we have seen an increase of strife and calamity in our society that exists in direct correlation with the erosion of our society, regardless of the source. How you view Tomorrow's Harvest has a lot to do with how you view this breakdown of modern society. I believe, as I think many others do as well, that in the world depicted in Tomorrow's Harvest, we will have to return to the concepts of community and the nuclear family that held societies together for centuries in order to survive. Because Mike and Marcus are adults with families that grew up in traditional households, I would argue that this interpretation of Tomorrow's Harvest is accurate.

I find this take to be a bit reductive in some ways. Also you don't personally know the brothers or enough about their lives to say that your interpretation, which is just an interpretation, is accurate.

The nuclear family has completely failed as a concept, one that was popularized in the 1920s, and therefore has not been the glue to societies for the majority of history. It has especially failed in America because there are so many systemic problems with the country that it's nearly impossible for a huge chunk of the country to actually sustain the concept to begin with.

Also the world isn't just liberals vs conservatives, as much as many people who align themselves one way or the other would like to convince the rest of the world that it in fact is.

And what's with the double posting the same exact thing in two different threads?

[zeoevil]

Perhaps using the term nuclear family was wrong, but the point that society is based on community and family is a sound one that goes all the way back to the earliest civilizations.

I chose to say that I would argue that my interpretation is accurate for exactly that reason. I would argue that my interpretation is accurate. You can chose to disagree and we can have a discussion about our individual interpretations of Tomorrow's Harvest. Hence, my initial statement.

The terms liberal and conservative are umbrella terms that most people here can understand. Rather than list all of the subtle distinctions that exist under those broad terms, I chose to use simple terms that cover a broad spectrum of viewpoints. It was a deliberate simplification for brevity's sake.

I posted the same thing in both threads so that people who only knew about one thread or the other would see the post. Not everyone frequents both boards. I was not here for the initial drama that cause his thread to be made. Therefore, I thought it might be a good idea to post in both threads.

There have always been people on this forum with which I and others have agreed and disagreed with. Rarely do they make their points intelligently or eloquently. For good or bad, this is the nature of the internet. I chose to engage. I make a statement, discuss mine and other's statements, and so long as I am not insulted or demeaned, reach a point where one or both of us feel satisfied that at least we understand each other. You can take it or leave. That is entirely up to you.

[Radiobuzz]

@zeoevil what doesn't click for me is that you say TH could be read in any both ways but claim that BoC think in one particular way. If they did, why would they leave room to read it in any other way besides the one they personally believe in? I also think the 'growing up in a traditional family structure' is very weak, as they could, as many people do, grow up believing in concepts completely different to the ones they're raised with.

For what is worth I don't think BoC have made any moral commentary on family dynamics and just use it as a melancholy device. I do believe they are communists though (communists in the classic, early christian sense).

[zeoevil]

That is fair and entirely the point of the post. I believe one thing and you believe another. We talk about it and come to understand each other better.

See guys? That wasn't so hard know was it? Now everyone stop shitting all over each other and talk.

[WATER_CAN-_-]

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[NTFMTS]

That is fair and entirely the point of the post. I believe one thing and you believe another. We talk about it and come to understand each other better.

See guys? That wasn't so hard know was it? Now everyone stop shitting all over each other and talk.

Dude I literally came back at you with a conversation. Not shitting on you, just honest argument. I just can't tell if you're positioning this point at me

[zeoevil]

I'm not.

[jcnporter]

Western society is built on, and has been largely successful because of, the twin concepts of the community and the nuclear family. Over the last fifty years, the core upon which our society has been built has been eroded, in one way or another, by a variety of forces. What you consider those forces to be coincides with your personal beliefs. To conservatives, those forces are the irreligious and those who live nontraditional lifestyles. To liberals, those forces are the religious and those who uphold traditional lifestyles. Accordingly, we have seen an increase of strife and calamity in our society that exists in direct correlation with the erosion of our society, regardless of the source. How you view Tomorrow's Harvest has a lot to do with how you view this breakdown of modern society. I believe, as I think many others do as well, that in the world depicted in Tomorrow's Harvest, we will have to return to the concepts of community and the nuclear family that held societies together for centuries in order to survive. Because Mike and Marcus are adults with families that grew up in traditional households, I would argue that this interpretation of Tomorrow's Harvest is accurate.

I would regard myself as much further left than the term 'liberal' in the US sense and I believe that the forces that have eroded community and family are irreligious and the lifestyles people choose to lead are irrelevant.
Capitalism - consumerism, corporatism etc., whatever you wish to call it and its associated focus on individualism, competition and anti-solidarity has, by far, been the dominant mode of western society for over a century.
I would love a return to a sense of community - it is one of the definitive characteristics of left politics.
Edited just to add - I replied using the term irreligious as well because, while I am not religious myself, as someone from a Christian background I nevertheless fully understand that capitalism is antithetical to Christianity.

[jcnporter]

I guess how my definition of community might differ from a conservative's would be that it would be based more on a shared set of values and not racial or religious similarities. I also guess those values would include a broader and more universal definition of love than the 'traditional' sense and exclude any hierarchical element based on power. Ironically I think these beliefs are closer to Christianity than those of traditional conservatives.

[NTFMTS]

I'm not.

Ah, my bad!

[tumuli_stump_jumper]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJBWvUEZ-50

[WATER_CAN-_-]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJBWvUEZ-50

This has a great sentiment.


I think if one has a desire to understand the artwork, then one may be able to do so by trying to understand the artist.

[Nox]

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[Alvin]

Even though I’ve been listening to this album since it came out, recently I’ve had some realisations about how the songs might relate to one another. Apologies if I end up repeating what others have said but I haven’t read through all of this monster thread yet.

Reach For The Dead
White Cyclosa

I think the songs after Gemini and before Collapse act as a catalogue of the different ways in which things have gone wrong and we have been led astray. The sample-rate reduction used on the beats in Reach For The Dead sits uncomfortably within the more familiar BoC sound palate. This is likely intentional in order to contrast with their preference for analog processes that tend to create organic variation. The kind of variation here is intricate but stilted, like the reanimation of a skeletal husk. Is this a metaphor for the unnatural perpetuity of digitisation? This leads into White Cyclosa, the title of which refers to a spider that has a tactic of camouflaging itself in the husks of its devoured prey, reanimating them with the vibrations of its web.

Palace Posy
Split Your Infinities
Uritial

This section feels like it zooms out to an overview of Earth. The three songs evoke very different notions of speed and pacing. Palace Posy seems like a strident, militaristic march and has a deliberate, ordered timing. Each deep floor tom sounds like another bomb being dropped with the higher percussion being the reloading of artillery. I could be projecting but in the chopped chanting I hear “We have them!” Split Your Infinities sounds to me like an urgent broadcast news theme. Rapid developments are transmitted across the globe via radio frequency and satellites, but also, out past our atmosphere. Urital provides another contrast, this time it might be with the vast eons of space. Distant planetary objects, slowly revolving on a far greater time scale, are indifferent to our plight.

New Seeds
Come To Dust

For anyone that thinks the album is all doom and gloom, New Seeds acts as a foil to that. The loose muted electric guitar picking has the tactility of tiny seeds. There’s a resilience to this organic production line. I could be projecting again but in the lush choral lines that gradually emerge I hear “Hello, hello, hello!” A hopeful and welcoming greeting to germination! Let’s not forget though, that this new growth is happening in the decaying remnants of a fallen civilisation. Come To Dust sends plumes of debris into the minds eye of the listener, each snare hit like the eventual toppling of another of mankind’s architectural achievements.

[Alvin]

*Uritual.

[Glen_Glog]

Thumbs up analysis

[NTFMTS]

Likewise from me! ^

[♄ope keeper]

Inspiration for "Jacquard Causeway"?

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[zeoevil]

Musically? Yes. Thematically? Probably not.

Some history for the uninitiated.

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[WATER_CAN-_-]

This section feels like it zooms out to an overview of Earth.

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