We're Cooked - UK Elections 2026

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fujee wrote:Also, I really value that we can all have a respectful, good faith debate about this shit sandwich. It's a rarity on the internet.

I hope my previous post doesn't come across as dismissive or aggressive @observation. I really have no time for today's Labour party, but I do understand where you're coming from. It's a really prickly topic for me that I waste too much energy on, to be honest. I always try make a clear distinction between those who still support Labour and those administering the party.


No offence taken fujee, and I agree it's rare for us to have a political chat on the internet without war breaking out.

I don't think Starmer is evil, as some of the previous occupants of No10 could be described. If the media are to be believed, the future occupant of No10 (the frog faced see-you-next-Tuesday mentioned by Mexicola :] ) is in my opinion truly unbearable and to call him evil is an understatement.

I think my 'charitable' take on Starmer stems from finally seeing an adult in the room amongst the total binfire of UK politics over the last two decades. I think a government led by Wes Streeting would hardly be an improvement. The UK electorate has no patience for another party leadership election. The majority gained at the last general election (like it or loathe it) came from millions of voters - the selectorate for a new Labour leader would be a few hundred at most. The people of the UK will absolutely not welcome the election result just being torn up and replaced by a few power hungry shits in the PLP.

Anyway this is all academic because I live in Scotland and I want Westminster to be removed from the governance of my country with all haste - but that's another argument for another day. :)

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Dayvan Cowboy
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If the United Kingdom’s most prosperous and economically influential periods are often associated with the postwar consensus of the 1950s–60s, the market liberalization and growth reforms of the Margaret Thatcher era, and the relative stability and expansion of the late 1990s and early 2000s under Tony Blair, why is there such resistance to revisiting or combining elements of these policies today, especially amid concerns about stagnant wages, declining public services, weak economic growth, rising inequality, and falling living standards?

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Thatcherism was an attempt to roll back the post-war consensus and led directly to the underinvestment in public services, stagnant real wages and inequality we're reaping now.
Blairism was the 'third way' ideology of harnessing deregulation and privatisation to try and patch up public services and it worked for a while, but worked mainly because it coincided with a worldwide economic and house price boom. There was no enduring substance to it because Blair continued the Thatcherite policy of selling off the country's assets and eroding state capacity.
Looking back at that era, for all the lauding of Blair, his achievements were actually mediocre in comparison to European peers.
Nowhere's perfect, but countries that implemented and built upon the policies of the UK's post war consensus of investment in public services and infrastructure, a supportive welfare state, retained national industries etc. are in a much better state and much better set up for the future than we are.

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zeoevil wrote:If the United Kingdom’s most prosperous and economically influential periods are often associated with the postwar consensus of the 1950s–60s, the market liberalization and growth reforms of the Margaret Thatcher era, and the relative stability and expansion of the late 1990s and early 2000s under Tony Blair, why is there such resistance to revisiting or combining elements of these policies today, especially amid concerns about stagnant wages, declining public services, weak economic growth, rising inequality, and falling living standards?


It worked, but it worked by selling off pieces of the house in the good weather. That doesn't leave you in a good place when it rains.

Moreover, the gains they counted weren't distributed evenly. A lot of people came out relatively worse while some people made a killing.

Things that benefit society often don't have easy ways to quantify their benefit. Let's say you're only thinking about money, and aren't fussed with making people's lives better just because.

Funding the NHS properly commits you to spend a lot of money in a way that just eats money. But you do it because making people well enables them to hopefully be less of a financial burden down the line. If they're all working and paying tax it's not a cost it's an investment, right? You're not paying for expensive treatments for things that would've cost less to fix with preventative medicine.

Successive governments cut funding to the service and tell the people working there "you've got to do more with less" which they do, but at the cost that everything looks more shabby and run down.

Companies who are motivated by profit know how this investment thing works and they don't have to explain themselves to voters. So they come in and say "we can help, just use our stuff and we'll buy you a new hospital wing" because they know there'll be money coming out down the line. So now your own spending cuts get hidden by flashy hospital facades and you've set up a pipeline for money to actually leave the system into shareholders pockets instead of being spent on patients.

That line about spending becomes "you have to be more efficient" because it presupposes that the reason that they need to make cuts is because there was waste and inefficiency. It means you get to be angry at a nurse rather than a politician. Nurses are understandably angry at this and strike, but over time you neuter the power of unions to effect change legally and you know at the bottom of your heart that people who are in caring professions are only there because they care about people, people you're now saying to the nurses "you're not going to look good if people die because you're standing on a picket line"

As time goes on the companies start doing deals with government directly, with politicians awarding contracts to companies that give them kickbacks. Corruption. Soon they're whispering saying "look this whole pretence that government runs health is kind of a drag, what we need is you to defund it all the way and when it collapses, we'll step in and save it, take it off your hands". (This is a policy called "starve the beast")

Eventually, you are having to make decisions about who you cure and who you don't based on finance rather than welfare. You set up a commission to score the effectiveness of drugs Vs their cost on a score called the "quality adjusted life year". You quantify the value of a human life in cold financial terms. You get patients arguing about whose treatment is more deserving. "Liver damage from drinking? Well, you did this to yourself. My child has leukemia." Etc

Now, this is a big wall of text. But I remember the 90s fondly too, I remember the time the money was being spent a bit more freely. But the point I'm making is that time you remember, the Blair years, was at the middle of a long story of robbery and decay that started decades earlier.

We don't have to go back to the Blair years, we should be looking to go back to the years when we realised, because we had lost so many lives to a world war, that all life was valuable and it cuts across class and has absolutely nothing to do with how rich you are.

We can do this, we can pull the private companies out of the NHS tomorrow and start funding it properly, but it's not in the interests of the parties in government

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Negamuse wrote:
zeoevil wrote:If the United Kingdom’s most prosperous and economically influential periods are often associated with the postwar consensus of the 1950s–60s, the market liberalization and growth reforms of the Margaret Thatcher era, and the relative stability and expansion of the late 1990s and early 2000s under Tony Blair, why is there such resistance to revisiting or combining elements of these policies today, especially amid concerns about stagnant wages, declining public services, weak economic growth, rising inequality, and falling living standards?


It worked, but it worked by selling off pieces of the house in the good weather. That doesn't leave you in a good place when it rains.

Moreover, the gains they counted weren't distributed evenly. A lot of people came out relatively worse while some people made a killing.

Things that benefit society often don't have easy ways to quantify their benefit. Let's say you're only thinking about money, and aren't fussed with making people's lives better just because.

Funding the NHS properly commits you to spend a lot of money in a way that just eats money. But you do it because making people well enables them to hopefully be less of a financial burden down the line. If they're all working and paying tax it's not a cost it's an investment, right? You're not paying for expensive treatments for things that would've cost less to fix with preventative medicine.

Successive governments cut funding to the service and tell the people working there "you've got to do more with less" which they do, but at the cost that everything looks more shabby and run down.

Companies who are motivated by profit know how this investment thing works and they don't have to explain themselves to voters. So they come in and say "we can help, just use our stuff and we'll buy you a new hospital wing" because they know there'll be money coming out down the line. So now your own spending cuts get hidden by flashy hospital facades and you've set up a pipeline for money to actually leave the system into shareholders pockets instead of being spent on patients.

That line about spending becomes "you have to be more efficient" because it presupposes that the reason that they need to make cuts is because there was waste and inefficiency. It means you get to be angry at a nurse rather than a politician. Nurses are understandably angry at this and strike, but over time you neuter the power of unions to effect change legally and you know at the bottom of your heart that people who are in caring professions are only there because they care about people, people you're now saying to the nurses "you're not going to look good if people die because you're standing on a picket line"

As time goes on the companies start doing deals with government directly, with politicians awarding contracts to companies that give them kickbacks. Corruption. Soon they're whispering saying "look this whole pretence that government runs health is kind of a drag, what we need is you to defund it all the way and when it collapses, we'll step in and save it, take it off your hands". (This is a policy called "starve the beast")

Eventually, you are having to make decisions about who you cure and who you don't based on finance rather than welfare. You set up a commission to score the effectiveness of drugs Vs their cost on a score called the "quality adjusted life year". You quantify the value of a human life in cold financial terms. You get patients arguing about whose treatment is more deserving. "Liver damage from drinking? Well, you did this to yourself. My child has leukemia." Etc

Now, this is a big wall of text. But I remember the 90s fondly too, I remember the time the money was being spent a bit more freely. But the point I'm making is that time you remember, the Blair years, was at the middle of a long story of robbery and decay that started decades earlier.

We don't have to go back to the Blair years, we should be looking to go back to the years when we realised, because we had lost so many lives to a world war, that all life was valuable and it cuts across class and has absolutely nothing to do with how rich you are.

We can do this, we can pull the private companies out of the NHS tomorrow and start funding it properly, but it's not in the interests of the parties in government


Yeah, I think you've hit on something there I've been thinking about for a while - if we want to talk in purely business/economic terms, the policies of the post-war consensus are effectively an investment in the welfare of ordinary people.
It then pays off with a fitter, healthier, happier and better-educated population that both has a 'multiplier effect' on the original investment and avoids much bigger costs later on.
This is what's so frustrating about the discourse around public services - it's entirely framed around the fallacy that tax/public spending are effectively wasted - money down a big hole.
Labour, for example, could easily re-frame the argument by continually pointing out the net economic benefit that public investment has, as well as the social good, but they either can't or won't, so they end up in a position where they're always on the back foot, defending it as a kind of 'necessary evil'.
Unfortunately it's what centrist politicians do - accept the arguments of neoliberalism, but say they'll mitigate against the worst bits. Doesn't work, though.

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Nailed it, @Negamuse and @jcn. We speak the same language.

Removing extractive foreign capital from our public services shouldn't end with healthcare either. Water, transport, communications, energy. All should be considered critical national infrastructure and invested in as such.

Defence too while we're at it. We spend billions on Trident yet it's maintained by the US. Is it truly a deterrent worth spending all that money on when we clearly can no longer rely on 'allies' like we have done previously? I say 'allies' because our relationship with the US has never been one of mutual respect. We have always been seen as a vassal state in the eyes of Uncle Sam.

This is why I laugh when 'patriots' further to the right talk shit about public ownership. What's more patriotic than building, owning and maintaining the machinery of your own state?

@observation, we'll agree to disagree on Starmer. But I definitely agree that Scotland should be independent. I believe that's pretty inevitable at this point anyway.
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So looks like a four or five horse (nag?) race. Who do we think wins? Who would we prefer?

Starmer
Streeting
Burnham
Rayner
Milliband

Anyone but Starmer or Streeting, surely?
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Burnham is said to be the only one Farage fears. On that basis, he should be leader.
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Basinski: I wanted Cascade to become this crystalline organism like a star or a liquid crystal spaceship, a jellyfish traveling through the galaxy…

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Burnham for me - I’ve always quite liked him. He’s the type of Labour left I’ve always closest identified with.

He’s taking a hell of a gamble though - Reform will throw everything they have at this by-election. Greens will want to make a point too. Tories may as well not bother. If theres any consolation to be had in the current state of UK
politics, it’s that the Tories are a spent force.


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Looks like Burnham doesn't it? Still not convinced personally. He's done well in Manchester, has the experience and has pushed a more progressive line than Starmer, but then again so has my dog. Will he cut through in Sunderland or Kent? I hate to even say this, but as well as policies, we need a personality. I almost choked staying that, but sadly it's true.

Part of me thinks Rayner could land well with the red wall as she seems quite combative, but it would be a heck of a gamble.

You're right about Reform, this is their 'shot' and they'll chuck the kitchen sink at it. Much as I'd love the Greens to do well, it's all about keeping Reform out and I just don't see them gaining the numbers. Reform gain power then all bets are off. Hate first post the post. Always seem to be voting to prevent what I don't want, rather than what I do. Burnham has pushed the PR line so that's something I guess.
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I read somewhere on the socials that the Greens are looking to do a deal with Burnham - they'll stand aside if he promises PR.
I hope that happens,, even though I think Burnham will be undermined by the Labour right and monstered by the media - they just can't help themselves. I'm trying not to be too negative about it, haha.

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Burnham wasn't part of the underhanded tricks Corbyn was subjected to, so he's at least not a total piece of shit unlike some of the others putting their names forward. Anyone associated with Labour Together should be shunned.
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jcnporter wrote: I think Burnham will be undermined by the Labour right


I think the smart ones (I know, I know...) will be sharp enough to know he's pretty much the party's only hope of clinging on. I'm sure they'll fall into line.

I fully expect his campaign material to be VERY light on mentions of party affiliation and heavy on his personality. "VOTE BURNHAM! HE WENT TO THE HACIENDA YOU KNOW?!"

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Actually getting PR through would be transformative for this country. FPTP is so undemocratic.

Even the arguments against it - i.e it's unstable and risky - look pretty moot when you compare to the past 10 years. Effectively locking large areas out of the electoral process is one of the reasons people are so frustrated and disenfranchised right now. That as much as anything else is why we see these spikes for the likes of Reform.

There's a greater chance the 'loonies' get in with PR, but it would be tempered by the belief that people's votes actually matter under it. Trouble is, no incumbent govt ever wants to take it seriously because FPTP was good to them at the last GE.
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Basinski: I wanted Cascade to become this crystalline organism like a star or a liquid crystal spaceship, a jellyfish traveling through the galaxy…

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What an absolute fucking legend. It's too bad they will probably throw him in jail for hate speech. Somebody make this man Prime Minister at once.
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Nah he's a walloper. Far right parties like Restore capitalise on problems that anyone can see and use them to sell shit soundbites to the internet cooked.

I see a man who's recycling the same few lines he's studied, and a confused kid who doesn't know why his dad is acting weird.

The problems of the modern world are obvious, and I don't blame desperate people for being easily led, but Restore don't have the right causes for them, and they certainly don't have the solutions.

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Negamuse wrote:Nah he's a walloper. Far right parties like Restore capitalise on problems that anyone can see and use them to sell shit soundbites to the internet cooked.

I see a man who's recycling the same few lines he's studied, and a confused kid who doesn't know why his dad is acting weird.

The problems of the modern world are obvious, and I don't blame desperate people for being easily led, but Restore don't have the right causes for them, and they certainly don't have the solutions.


Restore are (somewhat fascinatingly at first) bad from what I can see. Politics are changing similarly here in Australia, there’s an equivalent party that have been around for ages run by a racist fish-and-chip shop lady and they have recently been given a typical financial boost by one of the big fat ugly mining magnates (I have never seen the ads because the algorithm deems me insusceptible). They have strategically synchronised their colours with the high-vis vests of the working people. I hate them. They are mentioned, to my estimate, about 50 times more than the equivalent sized and similarly threatening Green Party, even on the public broadcasters for some reason.
Last edited by Alvin on Tue May 26, 2026 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Imagine looking at Reform and thinking 'Nah. Not fruitcake enough for me, let's start an even bigger collection of cockwombles.'

Restore can get in the big sack marked Arseholery and I'll gladly set about it with a big stick. Sorry, it's a no from me.
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Mexicola wrote:Imagine looking at Reform and thinking 'Nah. Not fruitcake enough for me, let's start an even bigger collection of cockwombles.'

Restore can get in the big sack marked Arseholery and I'll gladly set about it with a big stick. Sorry, it's a no from me.


My conspiracy-minded thinking is that Reform (and previously UKIP/ Brexit Party) and now Restore are all part of the same project - it wouldn't surprise me at all all if they share dark funding sources. Each there to move the needle of public opinion slightly further right.

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There is clearly a broader effort on the political right to blame systemic issues on the planning system and erode confidence in it. Given that many environmental protections are delivered and enforced through this system, weakening it appears to be a central objective within the wider push toward a more radical free-market agenda. In short, same old shit.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... than-exist
Sagan: In order to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.

Basinski: I wanted Cascade to become this crystalline organism like a star or a liquid crystal spaceship, a jellyfish traveling through the galaxy…

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