The general Inferno review, magazine, podcast etc. topic

[mechanismj]

Fantano with the 6 even after ample listening opportunity - the mug

Bulllshit artist. I was behind him with his TH review but this is really silly.

Let's face it. Melon was never 'one of us' anyway.

And if he listened to the album during a livestream... ew. No. BAD BAD BAD.

[Mexicola]

The Fantano review is pretty much what I'd expect from someone who simply isn't that into BOC. If my gf reviewed it, she'd also likely give it 6/10 and that's absolutely fine. Like The Guardian, Fantano likes Geese. Enough said.

Here's the Mexicano / The Beercan Drop review: Strong 9, light 10.

Relax, we got this.

[akirako]

Fantano with the 6 even after ample listening opportunity - the mug

Bulllshit artist. I was behind him with his TH review but this is really silly.

Let's face it. Melon was never 'one of us' anyway.

And if he listened to the album during a livestream... ew. No. BAD BAD BAD.

I remember there was a time he'd give mid to disparaging reviews to any punk or metal release (despite being a hardcore bassist himself) because he was just more into hip-hop and pop at the time. It's ok, he's just some guy.

By the way mechanismj, I'd like to take the time to thank you for changing your avatar. I remember the Robotnik/Chihuahua-looking endless loop you used to have and it was such a bad trip lmao

[A_Northern_Soul]

It's ok, he's just some guy.

This is it, ultimately. I love reading reviews (*not* watching video reviews - the internet's everything-video thing does my head in; I'm old fashioned; give me a wall of text), and a great well-written review of an album I love is wonderful and a good review can make me want to check out an album/artist I'm not familair with; equally a horrible tear-down of a review can be great fun to read. But yeah, "man dislikes pop record" is what it boils down to. I'm not going to waste any energy being annoyed about it.

[Waterbagel]

I love reading reviews (*not* watching video reviews - the internet's everything-video thing does my head in; I'm old fashioned; give me a wall of text), and a great well-written review of an album I love is wonderful and a good review can make me want to check out an album/artist I'm not familair with

ain't that just the damn truth

[mechanismj]

By the way mechanismj, I'd like to take the time to thank you for changing your avatar. I remember the Robotnik/Chihuahua-looking endless loop you used to have and it was such a bad trip lmao

Hah. Must have me confused with someone else. I had the avatar with the sandwich driving a car being stopped by police... which is like, the greatest sentence ever.

It was the work of artist Winston Hacking. Look em up! It's worth it!

[Daily Mail reader]

Maybe if BOC hadn't been white middle aged males this review would have been different (I'm sure I'll take heat for that one but fuck it).

I don't see why you would take any heat for it because it's true? Then again after reading this forum for a few weeks before joining the majority of the younger British members here do appear to be clichéd left-wingers.

[Daily Mail reader]

The only middle-aged white man who still gets a glowing review by the Guardian is probably Billy Bragg.

[Waterbagel]

a pretty brief scroll through recent reviews refutes that, but hey, who can bother, am i right

[Cupz]

Fantano with the 6 even after ample listening opportunity - the mug

Bulllshit artist. I was behind him with his TH review but this is really silly.

Let's face it. Melon was never 'one of us' anyway.

And if he listened to the album during a livestream... ew. No. BAD BAD BAD.

I thought he was pretty on-point with Tomorrow's Harvest...
*rethinks life*
*plays tomorrows harvest again*
nah still mid

[impboy]

Re Fantano: I have never seen any of his reviews, but as a former music journo myself, I respect how he was able to create his own brand without any sort of legacy media imprimatur whatsoever. I'd say he's kinda like a millennial Christgau — there's a significant amount of people out there who probably discovered their favorite music from him over the years, and I'm sure they're quite grateful for that.

That said, my relationship to BOC has never been mediated by him or anyone else, really, so what he says about it really doesn't change that. As for other people who may or may not be turned onto the music as a result, I'd say that Inferno is probably an acquired taste for those who are more used to, say, quite a few of the acts he's more inclined to support, so BOC probably wasn't going to win those guys over anyway, especially with Inferno. And for the fans who think he's an idiot, it creates great engagement. After all, we're all talking about him, right? Either way, he wins.

FWIW, I did run into a Guardian staffer who posted on (where else?) Bluesky that he quite liked Inferno, so I wouldn't worry about the odd clunker. Pretty sure the brothers aren't.

[TaoTapeTao]

Re Fantano: I have never seen any of his reviews, but as a former music journo myself, I respect how he was able to create his own brand without any sort of legacy media imprimatur whatsoever. I'd say he's kinda like a millennial Christgau — there's a significant amount of people out there who probably discovered their favorite music from him over the years, and I'm sure they're quite grateful for that.

That said, my relationship to BOC has never been mediated by him or anyone else, really, so what he says about it really doesn't change that. As for other people who may or may not be turned onto the music as a result, I'd say that Inferno is probably an acquired taste for those who are more used to, say, quite a few of the acts he's more inclined to support, so BOC probably wasn't going to win those guys over anyway, especially with Inferno. And for the fans who think he's an idiot, it creates great engagement. After all, we're all talking about him, right? Either way, he wins.

FWIW, I did run into a Guardian staffer who posted on (where else?) Bluesky that he quite liked Inferno, so I wouldn't worry about the odd clunker. Pretty sure the brothers aren't.

I like this a lot. Great perspective.

I don't really have a problem with Melonhead for this reason, his reviews don't dictate how I receive the music he might be reviewing. I have found some great music through him, and I also profoundly disagree with him on certain reviews even if he gives something I like a 10. It's kinda like Pitchfork back in the day - it was a solid way to find new music. Do I have to like Pitchfork? No. Hell I loved Entertainment Death by Spirit of the Beehive and Fantano gave it a pretty awful review. I still watched it though because I was wondering what he might have to say about it. I think Pluralism in discourse about music is welcome as long as if it is genuine.

That Guardian writer though... that was just ragebait from a thoroughly confused person. And yeah, it doesn't really mean anything anywho

[impboy]

That Guardian writer though... that was just ragebait from a thoroughly confused person. And yeah, it doesn't really mean anything anywho

Thank you much. Just to be clear, the Guardian staffer I mentioned was not the reviewer, but someone else on staff who I guess just wanted to say that he liked the LP and, presumably, that the review didn't speak for him. I found that pretty interesting. I mean, I'm sure that reviewers cut against what other people at their own media outlets think all the time, so even if he's speaking for THE GUARDIAN, it's not like he's speaking for everyone at the Guardian, if that makes any sense.

[mr3]

i would just as soon expect no interviews in the spirit of the very human ability to Just Say No - a lot of content generated (by hand, and increasingly by AI) seeks to make us feel like our questions are answered. why did they do this? when this happened in the book, or in the show, or in the movie, what did it mean? what are the symbols in front of me, and how do they correlate?

they're good questions, and some are good to answer collectively. more and more, i think many are meant to be answered by ourselves. david lynch seemed to feel similarly. many of us know the eraserhead quote, where he flatly refuses to explain what he means by having called it his most spiritual film.

some of the beauty is in not knowing, into having to become satisfied with what we have and where we've taken it. to me, the consumer drive for AI rhymes with the consumer drive for explainers before art can be called 'enjoyed'

(not that i mind our own speculation or anything - the asking is fun! sometimes it's the whole point! the requirement of answers, to me, less so )

As soon as you finish a film, people want you to talk about it, [...] The film is the talking.

- david lynch

P.S. don't get me wrong, i'll scarf down an interview along with the rest o ye if one shows up

When an album like this comes out, and reviews come out after, David Lynch is the first person I think of. People ask him what to think of his films, no matter how many hints he gives. As a 'reviewer' of art, I can share what a piece of music does to me, and that can have value for someone else. If instead I present some theory about why the impact of some music should be less or more for others, how does that benefit anyone? We know why people do it--because they think they have some ability others don't. Some others take what they say largely without question for similar reasons. It's a human temptation and I think a dangerous one. Everyone has the ability to truly experience, and it's an important ability for someone to have, for themselves. This is why I don't read reviews that speak for others through general ratings or similar. The situation gets worse when you can tell that a reviewer didn't even truly listen themselves.

The collective we chooses not to listen, and often. To someone like Fantano, music is not valuable as art that can expand his consciousness, it's a cue to roll over so you can get a treat. This is important, our concept of reality comes in part from our mental senses, and our mental senses are expanded by exposing ourselves to alternate ways of sensing--the ways others sense and interpret. Your ideas here I listen to, your experiences I try to experience through you, and it expands my awareness but also my ability to mentally hear and see, to experience 'the world around me' myself. It contributes to my reality, and it has constant chances to improve how I see myself and the world, to improve how I am and live. These things by choice point increasingly toward happiness, fulfillment, and something in increasing rarity--compassion.

So imagine people closing themselves off to listening. Closing themselves off to foreign stimuli. Choosing not to listen to experience that can change their views ever so slightly or more for the better. Some do it because they think external concepts are unimportant or are a threat. Some do it because they think they already have all the answers. Some do it because their moral structure doesn't allow deviation. Whatever the reason, their view of the world around them doesn't have a chance to be challenged at all by external forces. The belief systems they've created inch closer to inhumanity, create feedback loops of unhappiness, and trap them further.

All of this is obvious to us here, at least at certain levels. It's also why I suspect there's so much divisiveness we see in people these days. They religiously cling to their broken mental systems, theories, ways of living, concepts of and ways of experiencing reality. It's a hell on Earth. The biggest irony about that--it's a message that can be taken from this album itself.

[drvaughan]

i would just as soon expect no interviews in the spirit of the very human ability to Just Say No - a lot of content generated (by hand, and increasingly by AI) seeks to make us feel like our questions are answered. why did they do this? when this happened in the book, or in the show, or in the movie, what did it mean? what are the symbols in front of me, and how do they correlate?

they're good questions, and some are good to answer collectively. more and more, i think many are meant to be answered by ourselves. david lynch seemed to feel similarly. many of us know the eraserhead quote, where he flatly refuses to explain what he means by having called it his most spiritual film.

some of the beauty is in not knowing, into having to become satisfied with what we have and where we've taken it. to me, the consumer drive for AI rhymes with the consumer drive for explainers before art can be called 'enjoyed'

(not that i mind our own speculation or anything - the asking is fun! sometimes it's the whole point! the requirement of answers, to me, less so )

As soon as you finish a film, people want you to talk about it, [...] The film is the talking.

- david lynch

P.S. don't get me wrong, i'll scarf down an interview along with the rest o ye if one shows up

When an album like this comes out, and reviews come out after, David Lynch is the first person I think of. People ask him what to think of his films, no matter how many hints he gives. As a 'reviewer' of art, I can share what a piece of music does to me, and that can have value for someone else. If instead I present some theory about why the impact of some music should be less or more for others, how does that benefit anyone? We know why people do it--because they think they have some ability others don't. Some others take what they say largely without question for similar reasons. It's a human temptation and I think a dangerous one. Everyone has the ability to truly experience, and it's an important ability for someone to have, for themselves. This is why I don't read reviews that speak for others through general ratings or similar. The situation gets worse when you can tell that a reviewer didn't even truly listen themselves.

The collective we chooses not to listen, and often. To someone like Fantano, music is not valuable as art that can expand his consciousness, it's a cue to roll over so you can get a treat. This is important, our concept of reality comes in part from our mental senses, and our mental senses are expanded by exposing ourselves to alternate ways of sensing--the ways others sense and interpret. Your ideas here I listen to, your experiences I try to experience through you, and it expands my awareness but also my ability to mentally hear and see, to experience 'the world around me' myself. It contributes to my reality, and it has constant chances to improve how I see myself and the world, to improve how I am and live. These things by choice point increasingly toward happiness, fulfillment, and something in increasing rarity--compassion.

So imagine people closing themselves off to listening. Closing themselves off to foreign stimuli. Choosing not to listen to experience that can change their views ever so slightly or more for the better. Some do it because they think external concepts are unimportant or are a threat. Some do it because they think they already have all the answers. Some do it because their moral structure doesn't allow deviation. Whatever the reason, their view of the world around them doesn't have a chance to be challenged at all by external forces. The belief systems they've created inch closer to inhumanity, create feedback loops of unhappiness, and trap them further.

All of this is obvious to us here, at least at certain levels. It's also why I suspect there's so much divisiveness we see in people these days. They religiously cling to their broken mental systems, theories, ways of living, concepts of and ways of experiencing reality. It's a hell on Earth. The biggest irony about that--it's a message that can be taken from this album itself.

Discussions like this are part of the reason I reregistered and came back to this board. The critical landscape has changed a lot since I stopped actively posting.

I'm going to use Fantano as a jumping off point. I could personally take him or leave him. The first time I came across any of his reviews, he was more or less just starting out: him against a blank background with a green screen square that the album in question appeared on. I was coming off an enhanced all-night experience and wanted to look up some more information about the record I had just finished listening to: Tobacco's Maniac Meat.

So, I'm watching this bald guy go on and on about this album to himself in an empty room, and at the end, he says "I'm feeling a light 6" (or whatever) "on this thing," and I just thought "Is this for real? We're really going to sit here and stick a number on this?" It just felt so...crass. I'm sure the chemicals were part of it, as well as the whiplash I felt from having a more visceral experience with the record, then immediately following it up with something that turned the music back into commodity. Regardless of your opinion of Tobacco/BMSR, I hardly think you can accuse the guy of compromising on his overall vision for more sales.

Fast forward a decade and a half, and Fantano's influence has grown immensely, and more power to him; he really has put a lot of time into the channel, and helped people find all sorts of music. OK, great. But there's something to this whole rating/fan/stan culture that annoys me. Your whole thing is reviewing records, and you're going to listen to this and react on a livestream? At least Christgau actually listens to whatever he's going to pithily recommend/dismiss.

To me, Fantano is a good representation of how discussions about music/music "criticism" has become a kind of simulation, where the discussions are now so focused on what number a particular figure gives a particular record, and "deep dives" are just retreads of wikipedia (or BoC pages) entries. Check the boxes, hit the keywords, give that all important score, interpret the album correctly. But as was mentioned above, to actually sit with a piece of art, to turn over its supposed themes and frame them through your own personal experiences...this takes time. This requires you to be alone with your thoughts for a bit, and I'm not sure that can be reconciled with a model or culture that treats art as product, no matter how cool or influential the reviewer is, or what their politics are.

A lot of us on this board are working through this record; I'm noticing it resist easy interpretations, even given the immense power of the imagery and the associations that seem to come with the concept of "inferno."

All I know is, what I felt after hearing "You Retreat..." that made me text my wife is not something you're going to come across in any piece of content that contains a numeric score, hi or otherwise.