Why we will never get a BOCset

[niknak]

We all know this was planned or worked on at some point, so why didn't we get it?

My theory - legal liability. The music industry has changed a lot in the past couple of decades. Today, no responsible music label would release something with heavy use of samples without knowing exactly where they came from and getting permission for every single one before release. I can guarantee you every sample on Inferno has had its source documented, and been vetted and cleared. Anything else would be irresponsible.

The old tunes era music is full of samples. I have little doubt there is stuff buried in there that even M&M don't recall where it came from. No legal department would sign off on releasing this music if there was the slightest chance it could come back on them via a legal claim by a rights holder. Look up what the Rolling Stones have done to Richard Ashcroft (Bittersweet Symphony) and Carter USM (and that was literally for the use of three words!).

Even for the samples that have known sources, there would be a huge financial and legal burden in even determining *if* they require permission to use. Then you have to identify and trace the rights holders, and get their permission to use the material in the first place. Then there is negotiating fees or royalties. And this would be for samples which have *already been used*, and so cannot be easily removed or replaced. So essentially being held over a barrel - the rights holders could name their price.

All in all, I think it was just decided it was not worth it financially or legally.

Post MHTRTC and Geogaddi era stuff, i would expect these aspects would not be as much of an issue, so maybe we see some of that in the future, but anything prior to that forget about it. I'm glad we have the recent new Old Tunes tape rips, and hopefully *if* there is more existing music from this time period (which i actually doubt - i think this is most of it), maybe it makes its way out somehow in the future. But i would not hold my breath.

[Negamuse]

This makes a lot of sense, honestly.

I sort of wonder if the reason we're getting clean rips now is because at some point someone along the line went "oh this is never going to be possible" and slyly uploaded them in a plausibly deniable way.

[Ottomatik]

Maybe I'm not understanding it correctly but it seems MDG already unconfirmed that theory.
I also just discovered that tracks from AFOT, OT2 and R35TT have recently been claimed by Warp on Youtube copyright database (see bocpages). I think this kinda confirms legal issues aren't at stake here.

[niknak]

MDG was discussing the contributions - or not - of other members of the band, not samples. "Any and all early material by BOC was 100% written by Mike Sandison & Marcus Eoin". They 100% did not write all the samples they used. But that's not what he was talking about. You can still be considered the "writer" of a composition that uses samples.

The fact that they might have claimed copyright on Youtube does not preclude anything i said. This is not the same as releasing them as a commercial product. And you can still claim copyright of a work that itself contains *other* copyrighted work. Ones does not invalidate the other.

[A_Northern_Soul]

I imagine sample clearance will be a big part of it (maybe they're still trying to get hold of Bob Holness' estate to clear the Blockbusters sample?). That plus the time required to remaster and/or actually work out what they want to release - if there's anywhere near the quantity of old music we've been led to believe, then wading through it and choosing/compiling what to release must be incredibly difficult. One of the things that puts me off Autechre is the sheer volume of of what they put out. Give me a tightly curated/compiled compilation any day over a "here you go...." info-dump.

[Negamuse]

Ehhh... for old stuff, clearing out the desk drawers I mean why not infodump it honestly.

I kind of think if you can pull some of it together into a format that's worthy of releasing under your own name, then by all means do it. But if it's just the contents of your sketchbook then dumping it onto soundcloud and going to the fans "here, have a root through this, see if there's anything in it that's worth your time" is probably enough without polluting your timeline with it.

[Cupz]

Ehhh... for old stuff, clearing out the desk drawers I mean why not infodump it honestly.

You don't want to oversaturate your market, people might get tired of the music. I think we'll get a lot of stuff when they're "done", whatever that would mean in the future. Some doomsday device rigged to release a back catalog when their hearts stop or something, or release one scrawny new thing every 14 years until way after that.

[Wildfire]

MDG said it was "99% likely", I'm sticking by those phenomenal odds and holding out hope.

[mc10101]

I always felt that the 'bocset' as we call it was going to be a compilation anyway, rather than literally all the limited releases reissued together (I'm sure they said as much). I imagine there are lots of tracks pre-95 that they just find embarrassing now. So I'm still holding out for some cherry-picked goodies at some point. As for a complete Hooper Bay or Acid Memories...

[Group Hex]

No BOCset is fine with me. I’d love to see expanded release of MHTRTC & Geogaddi though.

[superuser]

If we can’t have the old material officially for whatever reason, I would love to see the brothers think of increasingly elaborate schemes of releasing the material like with how the ATP sound boards, old tunes/maxima tapes, and digital rips all leaked leading up to Inferno.

So if they have another EP or album in a couple of years they could make a fake alias that leaks pristine tape rips, etc. They wouldn’t even ever have to reveal that they’re behind it.

Perfect marketing hype for a new release and a way to release the material without any responsibility.

[mc10101]

Mind you, it could be their retirement plan Imagine the pre-orders

[Mexicola]

Mind you, it could be their retirement plan Imagine the pre-orders

I distinctly recall an interview where they said it was effectively a nest-egg for their kids, so you may be closer to the mark than you realise here.

[zeoevil]

I said the same thing about sample, but mdg responded that there were no problems with samples or something to that effect.

Also, IIRC the issue of samples does not apply to recordings made prior to the Grand Upright Music, Ltd. v. Warner Bros. Records Inc. case in 1991. So it would depend on when the recordings were made and if any of this even applies to them because of when and where they were made.

EDIT: Yeah I didn't see the link to mdg's response to my post. Interesting that his response doesn't really say anything about sample. My bad.

[mr3]

Issues with samples hinge on them wanting to make money from any derivations. They may not need to or want to. Like Negamuse mentioned, giving out old material digitally is an option. RDJ and Mike Paradinas both did Soundcloud dumps, they were sample-laden, and they were received pretty well with no perceived legal issues. The lead in content and Inferno itself was posted to the BOC SC page for free listening. They have low-risk physical options too including how folks got VHS tapes in their hands. And I think there's more to what MDG said in that quote--he said "there was no question of legal" and the only thing in their way at the time was time. It's possible he was referring to all legal issues, and it's possible the claim was correct. For ex. their tentative plan could have just been the tried/true giving away tapes approach.

[drvaughan]

I'm of two minds about this, partly because I'm also a big Beach Boys fan, so I'm no stranger to the drama that comes with the potential release of rare/unheard/special tracks.

I'm fine with a soundcloud dump, and I'm actually even more fine with Sam or some other privileged user getting a hold of the tapes and putting them up in lossless quality. I think the latter route was actually a pretty cool way to "release" something; very BoC.

The reason why I'm fine with this is because I think box sets are really only all that interesting or worthwhile if they provide context, essays, material, whatever. And for a band as mysterious as BoC, this could be worth the price of admission. If the band was going to throw in a nice book of unseen photos, some new interview, and the like, this could be a cool thing.

However, I am personally not all that into the idea of a set that just contains the music. We've all heard it already, and if anyone hasn't, it's easier now than ever (sure beats Limewire and KaZaa). Plus, maybe it's just me, but I don't think this stuff really lends itself to vinyl. It's early stuff, not meant for wide release; doesn't a Soundcloud dump kinda fit better, considering the passed around nature of the original tapes? Maybe there's a cool CD set to be made, but will that be worth the costs of production?

So yeah, I'm always game for new stuff, especially stuff like this, but as I get older I don't care that much about the specifics. These weren't really "real" albums, so I don't see the need unless there are cool extras involved. But that's me.

[belchmaster]

When the vhs tapes got sent out I was pretty convinced that the output was going to be related to the old tunes. All the news of new/old tape rips and higher quality uploads made me think that it just couldn't be LP5. And now here we are with the new album. Only time will tell if well ever get the set. It would be a shame though if some of the early stuff never officially sees the light of day. There are some really wonderful songs there.

[Wildfire]

I think we need to remember that this isn't just a remaster of their old albums, it's also a selection of the tracks that didn't make the albums, of which there are apparently hundreds.

[niknak]

I am as skeptical that there are hundreds of tracks from this time period as I am that there are five released albums that no-one has ever even produced a photo of. But i'm sure there's some materiel we've never heard.

Like a couple of others have mentioned, I am way more interested in unreleased trakcs from the MHTRTC and Geogaddi eras.